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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ban racist relative from my house?

81 replies

jazzchilli · 13/01/2022 01:05

I love my father in law and he is like a father to me. However, he has a wife that we can't stand. They've been together for about 18 years and she has drained his savings and is now trying to get hold of our money. When he had cancer, she did absolutely nothing for him, leaving it to their lovely neighbours and us, who live 170 miles away. But the main problem with her is...she's an aggressive racist.

Basically we avoid her as much as we can. Luckily, he always comes to stay with us on his own because we only have one spare room and she refuses to share a bed with him. Today however, he called to say she wants to come with him this time and he'll have to sleep on the floor. He's 78. I'm not comfortable with any adult guest sleeping on the floor in my house, it feels so wrong.

So...AIBU to ban her from the house. I don't think I shouldn't have to tolerate a racist in my house. In the 20 years we've known her she has shocked us with her racist comments every time we've seen her. She even makes comments outside deliberately so neighbours hear.

I feel that not standing up to people like this is unacceptable, especially now. I'm not going to keep quiet and listen to the venom she spouts, so there'll be a terrible row. I have challenged others in the past but it's been difficult to do so with her as I don't want to hurt my father in law. Although he moans about her constantly and is always relieved to get away, so I don't understand why he would inflict her on us!

My husband doesn't want to upset his dad but I think it will be worse if she does come. I would also be left on my own with her most of the day as my husband likes to take his dad out to pubs etc. Then, the three of us have a lovely time drinking and talking in the evening. When this woman is there conversation is limited - she's ignorant and uninformed - and my father in law is subdued.

My husband doesn't know what to do - I'm standing firm but he says that he would just put up with her for the sake of his dad. What do I do?

For additional context, she has been married at least four times before and I've been told that some of her previous husbands' children also hated her. She is literally the most toxic and selfish person I've ever known.

OP posts:
backtolifebacktoreality · 13/01/2022 11:34

@magicstars

Definitely don't let your dh think it's ok for him to have a lovely time with his dad, leaving you to entertain this woman. If she does come, you are not responsible for babysitting her! Could you tell your FiL that you'd like to meet somewhere half way & see them both for a day out somewhere instead?

I wouldn't even be meeting her if she's continually making racist comments!

backtolifebacktoreality · 13/01/2022 11:35

@Snorkmaidenn

How about you mention to her that you are having your new friends of colour over and they will be cooking, so it's best she doesn't attend. I couldn't handle the racism , so lying is nothing in comparison.

How about you just tell her you don't like racists!

iklboo · 13/01/2022 11:52

We actively challenge FIL & BIL2 making racist comments. FIL's is more the 'of his age name for POC / gay people' but he still gets pulled up. BIL2 is a nasty piece of work & probably every 'ist' there is. We rarely see him by choice and never at ours.

On top of her foul racist behaviour she thinks it's ok for her cancer-recovering husband to sleep on the floor? Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

Snorkmaidenn · 13/01/2022 12:01

I agree, but whatever op days or does will end in tears I guess, and won't be the old dear's tears.

Budapestdreams · 13/01/2022 12:11

I think your FIL would prefer a few days away from her.
Also, he shouldn't be sleeping on the floor.
I would say that you and your DH would prefer to spend time with him alone, so it would be best if she didn't come.
Also, you're right, racism shouldn't be tolerated and should be called out. I wouldn't want her in my house either.

jazzchilli · 13/01/2022 15:06

Thank you everyone so much for all of this - even (or maybe especially!) those who don't agree with things I've said. It's such a relief to get different views after going round in circles on this issue with my husband for years. It's literally the only thing we've ever really argued about.

Just to answer on some of the comments with some more context, sorry if I miss anything! I've read and take on board everything that's been said while I was waiting for my physio appointment. Sorry it's going to be a long one...

As far as the bed situation - I wouldn't be willing to give my bed up for a racist anyway, but I'm recovering from a shoulder op so it's out of the question really. I don't think the bed is the issue though, if she was nice, or god even vaguely tolerable, we would be happy to accommodate her however we could. The bed situation has been our way of avoiding her staying. I have said to my husband that I would go away for the weekend but he says that would be too obvious that I hate her. I really don't care...I have actually avoided going with my husband to visit them for a few years now, but obviously now she's attempting to ambush me in my own home.

We moved just before COVID and had to ensure that we arranged the house so it wasn't possible to have more than one spare room, as in the past they have had to stay with relatives for months on end. When my FIL came with us to see our new house before we moved in he actually looked at one room with an ensuite and said 'Yes XXXX will have that room, it's got a full shower, not a bath, that's what she prefers.' I promptly made it my dressing room with fitted wardrobes and enough furniture to exclude a bed, but he pokes his head in there every time! Maybe she is determined to examine the house to see if we're lying about having only one spare room...

@Suzanne999 I'm so stupid...I hadn't even thought that the reason she's suddenly insisting on visiting was to make another pitch for money! My FIL has mentioned to my husband that she gets upset that we don't send her presents on Mother's Day and her birthday etc.They are having problems with the house they're renting as well so she may be gearing up to insist that someone (us, my sister in law) buys her a house (again). She forced him to move there from another area he really loved, the first thing he talks about every time we speak is how much he misses the old house and his neighbours.

When he was forced to move we did finally ask him whether he was happy with her or wanted to split. He pays for everything anyway as she has no pension (so she says) so it would actually have been cheaper for him to stay there on his own. As far as we can tell there was a big fight but the next day he panicked about being on his own and gave in - which included moving away and handing over his savings so she could redecorate the new house. When she buys anything he gives her cash but then he says she just uses his credit card for it and pockets the cash! I have no idea how he affords to give her all this money, he only has his pension.

Last time he was here, he did start, unprompted, to explore whether he would like to live near us in a retirement flat after she was gone. We have made it very clear that we would be there for him, and that we want him to be closer. I've stated in no uncertain terms, when he talks about their disagreements on their living situation, that we support what is best for him, and that what he wants is valid and important. Because I don't think he believes that, he just says 'happy wife, happy life' as if he doesn't matter. I hate this because any other woman would be thrilled to be with him - he's intelligent, has lots of stories from his past careers, can cook, is kind and loves technology and keeps up to date with everything. Yet he's ended up with this awful woman out of fear of being alone.

On the school/racism thing. Perhaps my location was key here - plus I was a brat at school and maybe wasn't paying enough attention. It wasn't particularly diverse, but it seemed very inclusive at the time. Now, I feel stupid for believing that. I was suppressed a lot by my parents for having 'too many opinions' so no chance of guidance there. Still get that from my mum when she doesn't like what I have to say, but on racism she has now at least admitted that I was right.

Overall, my husband completely agrees - although she often, weirdly, targets me when I'm on my own to start airing her vile opinions and questions me about who I associate with. And never likes the answer. There is a big issue for me that our new neighbours who just moved in are Asian and our other neighbours are black. At our old house, right after we moved in she made racist comments that our old neighbours heard, who were Asian. They were so lovely that they never mentioned it at all and we ended up being very close. I know that wasn't the right thing and I should have acknowleged it and apologised, but was struggling with depression at the time and didn't feel up to tackling it as I might have cried and made it even more awkward! I'm not being put in that situation again and none of our existing neighbours should be.

My ultimate concern, as many have identified, is that my husband gets to spend as much time with his dad as possible. And I want to too, we're very close, he calls me his daughter and I call him dad. We have lots to talk about and as with my husband, that's not possible when the racist witch is there and she shuts down any plans we try to make, and sulks when she can't join in the conversation because she's so ignorant.

My husband knows I'm posting about this to get advice. He's weighing up how valid my concerns are and whether I have the right to ban her from the house. He is an amazing person and finds a way to rise above it, I suppose, even though he despises her. I hate causing him extra stress - his work provides plenty - but equally I don't see how this can carry on and we can feel good about ourselves. Left to him, he would suffer in silence if that was what his dad wanted. It definitely isn't - he loves coming here to get away from her!

I honestly don't know what is worse.

  1. Her coming and there being a massive row, one way or another.
  1. Finally making it clear we want nothing to do with her, and they don't come. Which will obviously also have repercussions with my sister in law and her family, who will get dragged into it. They don't like her but they have kids and so every contact revolves around them and they have less time to worry about other issues. My lovely niece is a bit of a handful and prone to tantrums...the racist witch is completely intolerant and has left their house when she went off on one, a few years ago. I think my niece might have kicked her Grin So there is already negativity there, I don't know if she has seen them since.
  1. I suppose my only other option is to go away for the weekend. Make my husband pay for a spa, read books in a jacuzzi, drain the minibar? But does this make me complicit again? I REALLY don't want to be that person. Does me refusing to be in the house with her make enough of a stand against her racism?

Massive apologies for the long rant...

OP posts:
Valeriekat · 13/01/2022 15:09

"My generation - school in 80s and 90s - weren’t taught to challenge racism"
Really? I went to school in the 60s and 70s and racism was totally challenged although perhaps not as aggressively as today.
I did go to a religious school though.
She sounds abusive, is he trying to leave her?

Suzanne999 · 13/01/2022 15:47

This sounds as if it’s having a huge impact on you. Maybe try breaking it down.
Does FIL want to leave her, live on his own maybe close to you?
If yes, concentrate on that as once he leaves no one has to listen to her racist opinions ever again.
How old is she? Everyone over 66 atm has a state pension , the amount varies depending on number of years of NI contributions but there is a basic pension.
Do not give in and supply any money for deposits etc… as I’m sure your FIL won’t benefit.
Maybe your DH can speak to him alone ( or both of you speak with him if she doesn’t visit) and if he wants to leave, help him with that.
Good luck, it sounds an awful situation all round.

BashStreetKid · 13/01/2022 15:52

Perhaps the blame is actually with my parents- I was threatened with consequences many times when I was about to challenge a racist. I don’t recall school offering any support. and when I asked my mum for advice she said ‘oh, you can’t ban her from the house just for being racist’. I honestly don’t think that generation get it, at all.

OP, generally I'm with you all the way, but you can hardly blame someone else for racism when you are being so blatantly ageist. You can't tar an entire generation with your mother's brush. I suspect I'm of her generation and, so far as I'm concerned, I certainly wouldn't have a racist as a guest and will call it out every time I come across it. And I know that I am certainly not alone in my generation in having those views. On the other hand, the likes of UKIP and the BNP have plenty of young adult racists.

BashStreetKid · 13/01/2022 15:54

This is how I feel. I don’t want to feel complicit in allowing this kind of hate to continue. My generation - school in 80s and 90s - weren’t taught to challenge racism and that was so wrong.

My children who were at school at that time were definitely taught that racism is totally unacceptable. Again, please don't generalise about generations.

jazzchilli · 13/01/2022 15:55

@Valeriekat

"My generation - school in 80s and 90s - weren’t taught to challenge racism" Really? I went to school in the 60s and 70s and racism was totally challenged although perhaps not as aggressively as today. I did go to a religious school though. She sounds abusive, is he trying to leave her?
@Valeriekat sorry perhaps I'm being a bit ambiguous. I probably shouldn't have written that part late at night. I really meant that knowing that the instances of racism we were likely to experience at school age were from older relatives it would have been useful to get specific guidance on dealing with that. I definitely didn't. I do think this is where guidance often fails on many issues - it doesn't deal with the practicality of a situation ie. a thirteen year old challenging an older relative in their own home when you've been taught to respect your elders and be 'seen but not heard'. But then the school might have been accused of being presumptious etc.

Honestly though, part of me can't believe I'm struggling with this, it's very out of character and I even work on diversity issues in the workplace sometimes but still can't crack this one, maybe cos it's too close to me.

If anyone asked me the same questions I would say, ban her and get your father in law away from her. I think it's coercive control but again, when he says he's willing to do what she wants....what can we do?

OP posts:
maddening · 13/01/2022 15:58

She is blunt herself, call and tell her that you don't like her and have no intention of seeing her again let alone in your house.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 13/01/2022 15:59

I would just get dh to call his dad and say something along the lines of

"Dad you are welcome to stay any time, for as long as you like. We aren't able to accommodate X - practically, there is no room for her, and personally, we both find her offensive and hurtful to be around and honestly, we don't like the way she treats you"

saraclara · 13/01/2022 16:03

@BashStreetKid

This is how I feel. I don’t want to feel complicit in allowing this kind of hate to continue. My generation - school in 80s and 90s - weren’t taught to challenge racism and that was so wrong.

My children who were at school at that time were definitely taught that racism is totally unacceptable. Again, please don't generalise about generations.

100% agree. I'm 65 and am totally anti-racism and always have been. And my kids at school in the early 90s were definitely taught that racism was unacceptable from 5 years old. I remember being really impressed that it was brought into their lessons from the off.

You're really not helping yourself here.

Having said that, I'm going to focus on your FIL here. He's more important (in practical terms) than you making a stand about racism specifically re this visit.

You say he tries to escape her by volunteering etc. Maybe him visiting you is his escape too? Is she forcing him to bring her this time, even though he doesn't want to? Would you be doing him a favour by saying no?

jazzchilli · 13/01/2022 16:03

I do take on board what many of you are saying about generalising about specific generations. I'll avoid doing this as it is's unfair, as you say. I should say then, it's just the part of this issue I am struggling with the most. In this family, it's quite hierarchical I suppose and we're supposed to treat this horrible person with reverence for some reason. I do think if it were a younger family member they would have been put in their place by now.

OP posts:
PatriotCanes · 13/01/2022 16:11

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I would just get dh to call his dad and say something along the lines of

"Dad you are welcome to stay any time, for as long as you like. We aren't able to accommodate X - practically, there is no room for her, and personally, we both find her offensive and hurtful to be around and honestly, we don't like the way she treats you"

Or you go away for the night, your FIL shares with your DH and your DH gets to take her to the pub with him.... which makes option 1 suddenly more popular.
Imissmoominmama · 13/01/2022 16:16

Sorry, there’s no room, and we won’t allow FIL to sleep on the floor.

jazzchilli · 13/01/2022 16:24

@BashStreetKid I'm really sorry if I offended you. I am just talking about my personal experiences of racism and guidance. I didn't intend to make it sound as if I think everyone of a certain age is racist.

I know that's not at all true. It's just that these are the particular instances that I struggle to deal with in a way that doesn't ruin family relations.

OP posts:
PinkSyCo · 13/01/2022 16:25

I would be honest with your FIL and tell him this woman is not welcome in your home for all the reasons you have given. You never know, being truthful with him may make him realise she truly is as abhorrent as he must deep down realise and it will give him the push to get rid of the nasty piece of work he stupidly married.

LakieLady · 13/01/2022 16:27

I have a "no racist speech" rule in my house. Any guest who says something racist gets told it's not acceptable here and I explain that I ask people to leave if they come out with racist shite. If they do it again, I ask them to leave.

Maybe you could try this OP, and kick the racist out if she keeps it up.

Deisogn · 13/01/2022 16:37

I think the problem you have is that FIL either condones racism or is actually racist himself. You're awfully forgiving of him when he's done nothing to show this bothers him and it wasn't a red line for him.

Personally I'd let her stay but I'd make it clear I didn't want to hear anything racist and ask her if she can agree to that upfront. If she won't then no I wouldn't let her stay and offend my neighbours.

I think you flat don't like her which is fine but racism might be a bit of a red herring. She won't stop being racist because you have a row with her but it will hurt FIL and limit the time DH gets with his dad. I don't think you rowing with her saves a single person any suffering or grief but it does cause your FIL quite a lot.

PearlD · 13/01/2022 16:39

Should you invite an aggressive racist to stay in your house? That would be a fat no from me.

If your husband cant' find his backbone and is happy to be complicit in this then tell him you want no part of it, he can invite them on a weekend but you won't be around. Then take the kids away somewhere. Which will free up some bed space for the racist and the FIL, so they can take their pick where they sleep.

The alternative is that you stay, but be clear with husband that you will not be staying silent, as you need to give the kids a good example in the face of any hateful bile coming from her.

SlidingInto2022sDMs · 13/01/2022 17:01

I think the problem you have is that FIL either condones racism or is actually racist himself. You're awfully forgiving of him when he's done nothing to show this bothers him and it wasn't a red line for him.

Thought the same thing with my last post. It's all well and good OP making a fuss about this person's racism but when no one else happens to care or see it as a problem, what does that make them? Seems the dislike FIL has for her has nothing to do with that part.

Anyway, OP, the solution seems to be something to discuss with your DH and come to an agreement. You both don't seem to have one yet.

Thethreecs · 13/01/2022 17:02

Does your fil know how you feel about her? Sorry if I missed that bit.

It's easy for us to say ban her, tell fil to come alone. But, how would your fil feel if you said she was banned and he could come? Would he come without her or would he stay home? There's no point him missing out on a visit to you if he feels he can't come without her, visiting you may be something he really looks forward to.

If he won't come without her, then you need to have a plan in place for when she's there. Your dh needs to realise how you really feel and how it's affecting you. He needs to be on the same page as you with regards to what will be said to her if she starts. No brushing it under the carpet and ignoring what she says. He can't leave you alone with her, either you all go out or stay in, yes it's lovely he is catching up with his Dad, they both probably need it but unfortunately you can't be expected to sit listening to her in your own home when she is being racist etc

Your Dad is unfortunately brainwashed at this stage. He's not going to see the light. He may have some thoughts about life without her etc but he won't leave her, too many years have gone by with her in his ear, so many people when they hit 70 settle with what they have, some are happy some aren't, some do leave, some re marry but it's easier to put up and stay.

All you can do is be there for him, which you are. Don't punish him because of her, by that I mean if she is not invited and he won't come without her, don't let him loose out.

You can easily sort out sleeping arrangements, I get the impression he would give her the bed anyway and sleep wherever himself. As others have said there's really good airbeds on the market, we've the high ones, sometimes my own dh sleeps on it as he has Rheumatoid Arthritis and a regular bed leaves him in agony, we have a very comfy mattress protector on it, it's like the fluffiest duvet on the base. You could do this for fil. Our king-sized airbed fits in our sitting room and trust me we don't have a massive house, make it super comfy, nice sheet and duvet, lots of comfy pillows, really go all out and make it special for him, on your spare bed I'd put cold sheets or those flannel ones, depending on her age, if menopausal definitely flannel sheets and one pillow.

I know it's wrong to have her there but if he decides not to come without her, he looses out the most.

Thethreecs · 13/01/2022 17:06

*Sorry I referred to him as your Dad once, I meant FIL.