AIBU to ask this at an interview?

[FriendshipsAreHardForMe]

I have an interview coming up for a full time position (37hrs).

I'd ideally like to work part-time but was finding the right opportunity hard to come by so decided to apply to some full-time positions in hopes to negotiate down.

Anyway.... In terms of asking them if they'd consider me working part time...

Am I being unreasonable to not say anything about hours until I receive a job offer (if I do of course)? So as not to put them off too quickly. But maybe they'd be annoyed I've potentially wasted their time.

YANBU - wait until job offer to ask for P/T
YABU - mention P/T hours at the interview

Thanks 😊

I have never applied for a PT job but I have only ever worked a 32 hour week for the last 9 years. I negotiate at the offer stage but broach the question about flexible working in the interview. If me negotiating pisses off the manager then it's not the right place for me to work.

As a hiring manager I may sure the first paragraphs in my advert are clear that I am open to flexible/part time/remote working. If I only advertised for full time I run the risk of restricting my recruitment pool and may not get the right candidate.

I'm a recruiting manager.

If you asked me at the beginning of the process and the candidate pool was small/we could accommodate part-time working I would encourage you to apply.

If you sprung it on me after we'd offered the job I would be pretty annoyed regardless of whether we could accommodate part-time or the other candidates. It's important to me that my staff are honest and professional. Your actions wouldn't convince me you were either.

I'm always up for a discussion but we will state in our advert if we are looking for full time or part time or there is flexibility.

In a similar vein, I wouldn't advertise a full-time job, interview a load of candidates and then offer the successful one part-time hours because that's really what we were looking for all along. It just doesn't make good business sense.

In a similar vein, I wouldn't advertise a full-time job, interview a load of candidates and then offer the successful one part-time hours because that's really what we were looking for all along. It just doesn't make good business sense.

Exactly. If we're open to part time, we would always say so because it benefits us to have the widest field of candidates possible.

You need to focus on getting a job and how you come across as part of that process first and foremost.

Hoping and saying that we need women in high up positions and government intervention to make changes is a waste of your energy right now.

Focus on the here and now.

@SE13Mummy Our situation is very similar to yours, both me and my husband work 0.8, and this works really well for us. My husband also said that the interviewing panel were a bit taken aback when he mentioned that ideally he was looking for a 0.8 role. He’s a lawyer in quite a ‘traditional’ sector. But they obviously got over their shock and offered him the role.

Also I think not being open to p/t requests can cost businesses in the long term. As this thread shows good professional pt roles are hard to come by and so when someone finds one they’re likely to stay at the organisation for the long term, thus saving on potential recruiting costs. Companies that have a constant churn of full timers who move on every 2-3 years will have more recruiting costs. Surely if recruiting is as time consuming and burdensome as some posters have mentioned, then this is something they should consider?

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

You need to focus on getting a job and how you come across as part of that process first and foremost.

Hoping and saying that we need women in high up positions and government intervention to make changes is a waste of your energy right now.

Focus on the here and now.

Agreed. Some of us are women in high up positions, and it isn't that we don't understand the challenges. However, there are ways of going about things that will help you and ways that probably won't.

But also - I asked WHEN to ask for PT hours; interview or at offer. Not IF I should ask which is what lots are essentially saying (that I shouldn't as FT adverts are only for FT worker).

But if you’re asking ‘When should I ask for part-time hours?’, you have to accept that some people will reply ‘Never’. It might not be the answer you want to hear, but it’s a perfectly valid one.

Some really weird notions on this thread - such as ‘a workload’ taking a set x hours, without any reflection on the skill/productivity of the person carrying out the work and how quickly they can get it done.

It’s also a ‘weird notion’ that all jobs have a set workload and the skill/productivity of the person in the role is the only variable. What about their availability? Many roles are full-time not purely because of workload, but because there could be demands on that role at any time in the working week. Employers pay people for their availability to work, not just the work itself.

As a HOD I do a lot of recruiting. If I gave you an offer and you came back at that stage and wanted part time I would be annoyed you hadn't mentioned this.

I always ask if people have questions during interview stages and would expect you to ask this then. I would see you as massively wasting my time if you waited to offer stage.

That, however, is because if I advertise a role as full time it's because it requires a full time person. If there were options for part time I'd put that in the advert as I wouldnt want to miss out on good part time candidates.

I understand that some companies are more open with criteria though.

Employers pay people for their availability to work, not just the work itself.

Yes, this is particularly true of roles that involve line management. I have employed a few part time line managers, and unless it's a job share, it is far from ideal. Inevitably, things get escalated upwards in their absence, which just creates more work for second line managers who end up having to wade in to deal with operational issues on the manager's non working days. I do still accommodate part time patterns for really good managers, because I have other reasons for wanting to retain them, but it's a compromise that I wouldn't necessarily be willing to make for someone who wasn't outstanding in other areas.

Of course, in some industries, everything is entirely predictable and part time managers can plan around their absences, but if you work in an area where some of the delivery has to be reactive, it is very inconvenient to have the manager out of action on some days because it does increase the burden on other staff who have to step in and deal with it.

That's why, these days, I'm more likely to agree to a 2.5 day week that can be part of a job share thana request for 4 days...I don't want to be covering for people on their fifth day!

Just came back to the thread to see if it had changed as I found it pretty depressing yesterday! Would anyone really try to sabotage someone’s other applications because they asked to be part time ? Do you feel it’s a waste of time if someone drops out at interview stage?

I’ve made employing people flexibly part of my brand as I’ve become more senior. Teams are recognised as high performing, engagement scores are really high and staff are loyal and tend to get promoted faster. Everyone works really hard and is committed but I do think that’s partly because the message from the top is so strong on WLB and flexibility.

I would ask before the interview . I would be pissed off if I went through all the time and effort of an interview to find out that you had no intention of accepting the job on offer.

I am currently recruiting and was contacted by a candidate who wanted to explore the possibility of flexible working. We had a good chat about the role and she was by far the best candidate. I did offer her a reduction in the hours but unfortunately couldn't match what she needed. I have asked her to keep in touch and if something comes up that might work I'd love to have her on my team.

Had she not spoken to me until offer stage or interview, I would not have considered hiring her for this or any other role.

@FridayiminlovewithRobertSmith, it's perfectly possible to be a strong supporter of flexible working and to want candidates to act with integrity through the selection process.

Can I ask how you'd suggest I approach this? Lots are saying at interview which I totally see why.

My only hesitation is I'm open to FT if thats all that on offer and I don't want to put them off me before an offer is made (make them think I may jump ship if a PT job becomes available). And if it puts them off, I'd also like to know if that was the reason or not.

In your particular situation, where you are open to FT if that’s the only option, I’d leave the negotiation to offer stage. I don’t think that’s advice for every circumstance but if you’d take the job at FT hours anyway, you aren’t messing them around by negotiating at offer stage. That said, if advertised as FT I wouldn’t ask for below 0.8, and would prob be willing to compromise on a compressed week.

In the interview I would sound them out - asking about culture, what a normal working day looks like, approach to diversity, standard ways of working, etc. Don’t be afraid to ask for detail.

If wanting a job share I’d always advise finding a job share partner and applying as a duo - and talking to the employer before applying. That’s because a lot of larger places will have standard approaches to sifting and scoring job shares, and smaller ones may need time to figure out their approach.

@FridayiminlovewithRobertSmith

Just came back to the thread to see if it had changed as I found it pretty depressing yesterday! Would anyone really try to sabotage someone’s other applications because they asked to be part time ? Do you feel it’s a waste of time if someone drops out at interview stage?

I’ve made employing people flexibly part of my brand as I’ve become more senior. Teams are recognised as high performing, engagement scores are really high and staff are loyal and tend to get promoted faster. Everyone works really hard and is committed but I do think that’s partly because the message from the top is so strong on WLB and flexibility.

I’m a bit the same - I haven’t been 9-6 in the office in over a decade and my god I had to work hard to achieve that and cement the shift in culture.

I’ve just left a team that was rigid and inflexible in working practices when I took it on, and it was working ok. There were tensions in the team, particularly with some working very strictly to their hours and not being willing to be flexible when the business needed it, which was pretty understandable when the business wasn’t really willing to be very flexible.

I had a big internal cultural battle to improve flexibility and hire more flexibly but we doubled our targets and income in two years, and retention improved. It wasn’t just the flexible approach that achieved that - there were a lot of other changes too - but I think it contributed. As you say, if the org recognises someone as a person whose life matters, and is willing to make space for them when they need it, more often than not they’ll repay it with commitment.

@Whydoesthecatalwaysdothat

You need to focus on getting a job and how you come across as part of that process first and foremost.

Hoping and saying that we need women in high up positions and government intervention to make changes is a waste of your energy right now.

Focus on the here and now.

I was directly replying to someone. I was able to consolidate my views on it quickly so don't worry, it hasn't taken away from my job search and interview prep.

This whole post is because I'm in the here and now, trying to work out the best way to broach this.

Why not just any for PT positions?

OP I see you want to do the thing that impacts your ability to get the job the least.

In my view, raising it early is better than raising it late. Early might mean you get no further, fine, but it might be ok, while late runs the additional risk of being seen as springing it on the recruiter.

But @caringcarer the whole point of this thread is that in a lot of industries, and for many roles, part time positions are very rarely advertised. And so when they are there is a ridiculous amount of competition for them.

This was discussed in the Career Mum group - the general consensus was that a lot of employers are open to considering it, depending on the role, but it's a good idea, if a contact is given, to email or phone them in advance of putting in an application.

I've done that in the past where it wasn't entirely clear whether my qualification would be acceptable to them - it wasn't, but the quick email I sent meant I then didn't waste time my time filling in an application form (which seems to take hours these days!) or them having to read it to discard it.

My previous two and current employers would all have been up for considering flexible working options - they're all very pro diversity.

@BillMasen

OP I see you want to do the thing that impacts your ability to get the job the least.

In my view, raising it early is better than raising it late. Early might mean you get no further, fine, but it might be ok, while late runs the additional risk of being seen as springing it on the recruiter.

Totally agree!