AIBU to ask this at an interview?

[FriendshipsAreHardForMe]

I have an interview coming up for a full time position (37hrs).

I'd ideally like to work part-time but was finding the right opportunity hard to come by so decided to apply to some full-time positions in hopes to negotiate down.

Anyway.... In terms of asking them if they'd consider me working part time...

Am I being unreasonable to not say anything about hours until I receive a job offer (if I do of course)? So as not to put them off too quickly. But maybe they'd be annoyed I've potentially wasted their time.

YANBU - wait until job offer to ask for P/T
YABU - mention P/T hours at the interview

Thanks 😊

But you are expecting them to design the job around you. Unless you are a highly desirable candidate in terms of your skills and experience that just isn't going to happen.

You're assuming that employers are going to be falling over themselves to offer you a job so much so that you can dictate your hours. It all sounds a bit entitled really.

You're not being contacted by headhunters. You can't even find suitable part-time opportunities. When something isn't working you need a new approach.

[quote FriendshipsAreHardForMe]@spookyscaryskeletons

How did you find working compressed hours?[/quote]
Long days but to be honest I was already working more than my contracted hours anyway (unpaid) so it wasn't too bad. What really mattered for me was that I got Fridays off and could do the school run and speak to my DDs teacher and she knew who I was.

I worked 35 hours a week and that spread over 5 days meant that when I went for parents evening she didn't have a clue who I was! And my DD looked forward to Fridays because we could go to the park for a bit after school.

I work permanently from home now as I'm recently disabled and the office isn't wheelchair friendly. It suits me fine though! DD at high school now so I'm here when she gets home.

@alexashutup

I agree with you ethically. But in reality, I worry if I ask too early it will put them off me. I'll look difficult and they'd rather just say no and not have to consider it.

Whereas if I wait, they'll hopefully have time to want me (fingers crossed) and then not mind putting more time/flexibility in considering my request.

I work in financial services and I would not raise this at the interview stage. I do a lot of recruitment and if my aim was to recruit two part timers I would have specified this. Wholly different a few years in when you have demonstrated good performance.

The job I'm currently in was advertised as full-time but I only wanted to work 0.8 (four days). In my application I stated this clearly and I had also spoken with the head of the organisation prior to application and interview. During the interview I raised it and was told they'd advertised a full-time position so I politely pointed out that my application very clearly stated I was only available for four days... and then mentioned I was aware it was the third time this post had been advertised as no previous candidates were suitable so maybe 80% of me might be preferable to 100% of no-one. I got the job.

@BlinkingBananas

But you are expecting them to design the job around you. Unless you are a highly desirable candidate in terms of your skills and experience that just isn't going to happen.

You're assuming that employers are going to be falling over themselves to offer you a job so much so that you can dictate your hours. It all sounds a bit entitled really.

You're not being contacted by headhunters. You can't even find suitable part-time opportunities. When something isn't working you need a new approach.

Why do you have that attitude?! You don't have to insult me to make a point. That reflect more on you than me 👍

I'm not entitled, far from it. I probably won't get offered the job. But equally I don't want to rule myself out too soon. I have skills and qualifications, Im entitled to value myself.

Equally I haven't said at all they need to redesign jobs for me. 0.8 or compressed hours is hardly significant for lots of jobs.

I'll leave it there with you, but thanks for your insight...

I did actually have success a few months back. I went for a FT job, asked for 4 days at interview and was called later to say I'd have been offered it except the job was no longer available. Which was incredibly frustrating as finding PT roles is like finding a needle in a haystack. But I only mentioned it at interview because we were specifically talking about hours and id have had to lie to avoid it. Which of course I wouldn't do as it would be an awful way to start a job given I'd have had to ask afterwards anyway. I had intended not it mention hours.

I wouldn't really call that a success.

@SE13Mummy

The job I'm currently in was advertised as full-time but I only wanted to work 0.8 (four days). In my application I stated this clearly and I had also spoken with the head of the organisation prior to application and interview. During the interview I raised it and was told they'd advertised a full-time position so I politely pointed out that my application very clearly stated I was only available for four days... and then mentioned I was aware it was the third time this post had been advertised as no previous candidates were suitable so maybe 80% of me might be preferable to 100% of no-one. I got the job.

I'm glad it worked out for you and perhaps opened their eyes to benefit of being flexible.

Well, your approach isn't working, is it? You're also not listening to the vast majority of people on this thread.

I was trying to help you by offering a different perspective but it's clearly not welcome.

Good luck

@spookyscaryskeletons

I'm sorry to hear you've been recently disabled, although I'm glad there is a silver lining for you getting to see family more 😊

Family is so important and finding balance is definitely the goal.

Hi @FriendshipsAreHardForMe I haven't read all your posts but scanned. I was offered a job and I asked about working 0.8 / 4 days a week and it was totally fine. I've got several friends who do 4 days and have asked at outset in FT roles. I think this is very do-able, less than this becomes trickier I think. At this stage I'd get them to offer you the job first. BUT is this a non-negotiable for you? Or will you take a FT role? I also previously started a role FT but with agreement that I could reduce to 5hr days / 25 hrs a week after a few months. I think most FT employees there is a degree of slack and increasing recgoniition that PT staff you get more bang for your buck

I think they’ll be annoyed you’re wasting their time. If you want a PT job, don’t apply for FT roles. They want someone who can work 37 hours a week and you can’t, it’s pointless even applying.

@Hemingwayzcatz

I think they’ll be annoyed you’re wasting their time. If you want a PT job, don’t apply for FT roles. They want someone who can work 37 hours a week and you can’t, it’s pointless even applying.

A fair few pp have said they have done this and got reduced hours though

@ChampagneLassie

Hi *@FriendshipsAreHardForMe* I haven't read all your posts but scanned. I was offered a job and I asked about working 0.8 / 4 days a week and it was totally fine. I've got several friends who do 4 days and have asked at outset in FT roles. I think this is very do-able, less than this becomes trickier I think. At this stage I'd get them to offer you the job first. BUT is this a non-negotiable for you? Or will you take a FT role? I also previously started a role FT but with agreement that I could reduce to 5hr days / 25 hrs a week after a few months. I think most FT employees there is a degree of slack and increasing recgoniition that PT staff you get more bang for your buck

Thank you, it's reassuring to hear positive stories!

Luckily I can be flexible. I can work FT (providing I can find the childcare) and am willing to do it at a push for the right job. But I really would prefer PT, even if that's 0.8 or condensed hours. Happy to have an open discussion with them.

25hrs would be magical 😄

[quote FriendshipsAreHardForMe]@spookyscaryskeletons

I'm sorry to hear you've been recently disabled, although I'm glad there is a silver lining for you getting to see family more 😊

Family is so important and finding balance is definitely the goal.[/quote]
Thank you, I'm fighting hard and working with rehab to get me walking this time next year!

I think the WFH epidemic is one of the good things to come out of the pandemic for me!

And yes 100% you are right about the work life and family life balance.

Honestly I would go for the interview and when they ask at the end if you have questions that will be the right time to ask about flexibility and home//work balance. If they are a no then it's not the right place for you. But if you wait until offer and it's a no and they have already rejected other candidates it won't go down too well.

This thread is so frustrating, and really shows what mothers are up against in the workplace.

Unfortunately I think for some organisations and industries change will only really happen when men start requesting 0.8 or compressed hours etc in greater numbers. And so employers won’t be able to simply go to their second preferred candidate, get a ft person, and not think seriously about flexibility.

[quote FriendshipsAreHardForMe]@alexashutup

I agree with you ethically. But in reality, I worry if I ask too early it will put them off me. I'll look difficult and they'd rather just say no and not have to consider it.

Whereas if I wait, they'll hopefully have time to want me (fingers crossed) and then not mind putting more time/flexibility in considering my request.[/quote]
Rock and a hard place I know

Differing views but mine, as a long time senior manager, and recruiter, is to start the discussion on flexibility as early as you can in the process.

@SpookyScarySkeletons

Blimey, I do hope you can be up and about next year too. Wishing you all the best with your recovery/rehab.

Thank you for your advice 😊

@Isntitironic1

To those saying she’s wasting the employers time, sometimes employers actually prefer to have to part timers job share a role than one full time. I would explain the benefits of a job share to the employer.

Surely those employers put ‘jobshare preferred’ in the ad? Two little words, yet they save everyone a lot of time.

@HerculesMulligann

This thread is so frustrating, and really shows what mothers are up against in the workplace.

Unfortunately I think for some organisations and industries change will only really happen when men start requesting 0.8 or compressed hours etc in greater numbers. And so employers won’t be able to simply go to their second preferred candidate, get a ft person, and not think seriously about flexibility.

I think there’s some truth in that

My experiences probably differ from the norm as I need flexibility (divorced, 2 kids with disabilities) and I make that very clear when discussing new roles. That means I filter out inflexible companies so the vast majority of the companies I’ve worked for have been great. And im always extremely clear I allow (encourage) the same flexible working in my teams.

But I know that’s self selecting. There may be lots of old school organisations out there where women needing flexible hours find it hard, and where men wanting flexible hours find it not open to them. That’s wrong

@Graphista

I've been on hiring side of things - I'd be annoyed you'd wasted my time to be honest. If you want part time apply for part time roles!

I haven't been on the hiring side of things like this poster. However like this poster I would be very fed up that you had wasted my time and that of other applicants. If hiring for a full time role that is what I would expect. As Grahista said "if you want part time apply for part time." Also depending on the information i may consider sharing this with others I knew in the business obviously not your name, but letting them know that this person had completely wasted my time and moving forward I would never consider them again.

0.8 is more doable than job share or pt though

And the op has said she’d take that

Upside can be company saving 20% but depends on role and client contact etc

Sector I know used to never allow this, they do more now although it’s not always great in reality - compressed work for lower pay

Agree that it would be good to see more men asking for reduced hours. I didn't have children when I asked for this and it wasn't part of the reason and 2 friends do are 0.8 are childless and just want more time to themselves but all are female! My DP is hoping to ask for 4 days when we have our DC.

@HerculesMulligann

This thread is so frustrating, and really shows what mothers are up against in the workplace.

Unfortunately I think for some organisations and industries change will only really happen when men start requesting 0.8 or compressed hours etc in greater numbers. And so employers won’t be able to simply go to their second preferred candidate, get a ft person, and not think seriously about flexibility.

I've described in an earlier post how I applied for FT and was taken on as 0.8 but my DH did the same... ish. He applied for a FT job and only at the very end did he say, "I really hope I'm successful so just in case I am, I'd need to work 0.8 (four days) because of childcare; I look after my 2-yr-old on X day..."

Jaws duly drop, the women on the panel apparently smiled and made positive sounds whilst the man looked flustered. Fifteen years on, DH is still working for them but went full-time when youngest DC was in Year 1. Our approaches were different; it hadn't crossed his mind to raise it earlier in the process because he genuinely didn't see it as a potential problem whereas I went in having researched the history of the vacancy and make-up of the existing team. DH is of the opinion that it was the women on the panel who made it work for him and has since had it confirmed by the man.

As an aside, I do think 0.8/four days can feel quite different from 2/3 days to an employer so if you're offering four days, say it. I was at one place for well over a year before many of my colleagues realised I was absent once a week - they'd assumed they just hadn't seen me, I was out on a course etc.

@billMasen

Yes there's so many reasons why people need flexibility. Yours is a classic example and probably fairly common (being divorced especially so). It's not fair that women, with skills, experience and expertise are being excluded from meaningful work because they have commitments outside of work.

Men generally don't have 50/50 custody when marriages break up. Men are often the breadwinners so women take step backs in their career for childcare. Lots of people don't have doting grandparents for childcare etc etc.

One the one hand, women need to be financially independent. On the other hand, we can't because of the severe lack of decent paid jobs out there that are PT.

It's a systemic issue that needs government intervention.

But in the meantime I need to give myself the best chance possible at getting a job and if that means wasting someone's time along the way, then I guess that's what I have to do. It's not ideal but I think I'll be risking losing the interview if I mention it beforehand.

This is why we need women in high up positions. Who understand the struggle and inequality and can do something to challenge it. Your team are very lucky to have such an understanding manager 🙂