Neighbour’s aggressive dogs

[Tsc2011]

Hi, I wondered if anyone had any advice.

We own a small field at the back of our house which our children (4 and 6) use to play in. It’s alongside a neighbour’s field which also runs along the back of our garden so we’re pretty much surrounded by his land. We got on really well with him (although the constant peering in to our back garden was getting quite annoying) but then in lockdown he got two German shepherd puppies.
They’re not socialised and he disciplined them by hitting them and pulling their tails (awful to see). It’s resulted in the dogs being VERY aggressive!
Whenever we go out on to our land they go crazy, running at the 4ft stock fence, barking and growling. They track our girls as if hunting them and they stick their heads through the wire on to our land trying to bite us. It’s terrifying.
He reassured us he was going to get behaviour training for them and get them neutered but he’s since said that the vet refused to neuter them because they were too aggressive to have in the vets!
He’s said he likes them aggressive so he’s not going to do anything about it.
They’ve bitten him twice to the point he’s needed stitches and they bit my partner really badly, breaking the skin and causing swelling and bruising.
Since then someone (not us) has contacted the police about them. He’s decided it must have been us so he’s being very hostile with us now.
He admitted to the police he should have done something about their behaviour and he said they’re now jumping our fence. He told the police he’d replace the fence with something bigger but has since told us he won’t and we have to do it (the quote was £10,000!!).
We’re now not sure what to do. Does anyone know if thick hedging would keep them out (gorse/ hawthorn etc). The 4ft stock fence has to stay (he won’t let us replace it) so the hedge (would eventually grow to around 2m) would be in front of that.
Any advice about fences/hedging and how to deal with our terrible neighbour welcome!

How did your partner get bitten? If on your land then make that point? Either way a dog bite should be reported to the police.

The neighbour is legally responsible for keeping his dogs within his land. I agree with the others who have said to go back to the police.

I would make a complaint about the police who told you the dogs but your DH from their own land.
I don’t like the sound of the dogs tracking your children along the fence line. That is pack hunting behaviour. In well trained, well socialised dogs this would be nipped in the bud by the owner who is the pack leader, but your neighbour sounds ignorant.
Complain to everyone you can. The local council, police, dog warden. Get evidence —- film the dogs behaviour. Please be very careful of any visiting children and especially babies, as well as your own children, of course.

@user313213521

By the way YouTube has numerous videos of German shepherds jumping 6' fences. The closely related Belgian Malinois is the one used for police work and they're... well... watch this video

In the US they have something called coyote rollers on the top of fences to stop coyotes hauling themselves over and eating the family cat. They can also work for escape artist dogs.

I have a Belgian mali cross. Had to improve my fence as the madam jumped up against the shed and bounced back over the fence. If you didn't see it you wouldn't of believed it. All this over a squirrel. We had to move the shed and put trellis and wire across the top of the fence. Probably needed planning permission, but was ok'd by neighbours. No more escapes. Very clever dogs and yes can climb when they want. She walks walls when we go for a walk on lead 😳

They’re not socialised and he disciplined them by hitting them and pulling their tails (awful to see). It’s resulted in the dogs being VERY aggressive!

Surely he can be reported for that? Do you think you'll be able to film him doing it?

Look what happened to the woman filmed for smacking her horse about. Fired from her job and maligned all over the press.

If normal channels fail, I think I'd contact the press.

And in the meantime, hopefully the dogs eat him. That means they'd be put down though so

Also going to add. If you watch that clip on YouTube. My dog will jump through the car window when my partner pulls up outside the house.
He is 6ft 4. She can jump up and 'tap' him on the shoulder.
She jumps on the window sill to people watch.
They need serious exercise which your neighbour isn't doing.
They need serious socialising which your neighbour isn't doing.
Mine is crossed with a whippet so very fast as well.

This sounds awful and im sorry your having to deal with this. I have a gsd and whilst can be boisterous she has never hurt anyone and is well socialised
I would say thick hedging could help but maybe you would still need some sort of chicken wire at the bottom. My dog can get through any gap no matter how small so it wouldnt necessarily be dog proof

Memo to the dog reversing on the tight rope: nobody likes a show-off. 😂😂😂

Could you put up an electric fence like they do for horses, something like this picture?

www.gallagher.eu/en_gb/electric-fence-dogs

There must be some fencing or wire option that costs less than £10k.

I'd worry less about wildlife and how it looks - the short term priority should be keeping your family safe and being able to enjoy and use your own garden. A hedge could be an additional longer term option.

This is a terrible situation. Contact your local councillor for help. They will be able to intervene with police and council if needed.

I have a GSD and have kept them for years, they are my chosen breed.

They are wonderful loyal, protective, soppy with their family and brilliantly trainable dogs that can be highly dependable and steadfast in situations that would make other dogs nervous

But they take a good owner and he is clearly not one.

Stock fencing has no hope of keeping a GSD in - mine can jump our 7 foot fence and wall combo, he just chooses not to because we trained him not to. To be honest no fence should be relied on to keep them in.

As for hedges - no I don't think even thick brambles will work. They are stubborn and determined when they want something and will find their way through

This man has turned these beautiful dogs into a danger - even he isn't safe from them. German shepherds are the last dog I would expect to bite their owner - they are insanely loyal to a point of it being a weakness - if they are turning on their owner they don't see him as worthy of that loyalty and for a dog that is usually all about their family that is saying something

You need to report these dogs to the police, to the council, to the RSPCA and repeatedly until something is done. These puppies deserve a better home and life, they are not living up to their potential and will become more and more of a liability

As for him liking them aggressive.... if he thinks dogs like that will protect a property he is wrong. A well trained protection german shepherd is reliable and safe around the public, they are steadfast and unphased, they only protect when called upon to do so by command. These puppies are running on adrenaline, fear and instinct. They are no use to anyone as protection, their owner is more likely to get hurt by them in a guarding situation.

If they are tracking your children I think they are seeing them as prey. My children wouldn't be allowed out there until this is sorted and a hedge is not the answer. I would take this very seriously
I'd second ringing Trevor Cooper on the link someone gave you earlier. His team are experts on dog law
Video them, complain again to the police and inform your local councillor so they can monitor it too
I'd ask if any of them want to go into the field with them next door.

they bit my partner really badly, breaking the skin and causing swelling and bruising.

Hedges will do nothing and an adult german sheppard will easily clear a 6 ft fence.
I would report this to the police and animal welfare and keep logs of aggressive behaviour and film the dogs - he already think you reported him anyway

Ultimately your options are

• get proper fencing and still feel nervous (rightly)
• Keep your kids inside and keep your back door locked
• go back and report the attack on your DH with the aim of getting the dogs destroyed.

Make it the polices problem, if they try and fob you off, insist it goes on record and that you want it on record, because WHEN the dogs attack and kill you wanted it noted they did nothing. And be clear you will raise MERRY HELL if anything happens to your children because you are terrified one of them will be killed and the poice are dismissing it.

Op I don’t think a hedge is going to stop them tbh. And it will take ages and ages to become fully grown.

@Thetwomutts

I have a GSD and have kept them for years, they are my chosen breed.

They are wonderful loyal, protective, soppy with their family and brilliantly trainable dogs that can be highly dependable and steadfast in situations that would make other dogs nervous

But they take a good owner and he is clearly not one.

Stock fencing has no hope of keeping a GSD in - mine can jump our 7 foot fence and wall combo, he just chooses not to because we trained him not to. To be honest no fence should be relied on to keep them in.

As for hedges - no I don't think even thick brambles will work. They are stubborn and determined when they want something and will find their way through

This man has turned these beautiful dogs into a danger - even he isn't safe from them. German shepherds are the last dog I would expect to bite their owner - they are insanely loyal to a point of it being a weakness - if they are turning on their owner they don't see him as worthy of that loyalty and for a dog that is usually all about their family that is saying something

You need to report these dogs to the police, to the council, to the RSPCA and repeatedly until something is done. These puppies deserve a better home and life, they are not living up to their potential and will become more and more of a liability

As for him liking them aggressive.... if he thinks dogs like that will protect a property he is wrong. A well trained protection german shepherd is reliable and safe around the public, they are steadfast and unphased, they only protect when called upon to do so by command. These puppies are running on adrenaline, fear and instinct. They are no use to anyone as protection, their owner is more likely to get hurt by them in a guarding situation.

Isn't it really sad. They are an incredibly intelligent, hardworking loyal breed and this twat has just ruined two dogs basically. If they don't end up getting humanely destroyed for inevitably biting someone because he is so useless or being unable to be rehomed they will need someone with considerable experience to get them back on track. Sick of feckless twats buying dogs as a novelty or status symbol.

@Tsc2011
I agree with @Thetwomutts
I have a German shepherd, he’s the most wonderful affectionate lapdog, and he would never leave the boundary of our garden even with an open gate. But honestly if he wanted to jump a 6 foot fence or get through a hedge, he would, no hesitation.
And I adore GSDs but when they are driven by fear and abuse like your neighbours dogs they are terrifying and could very seriously injure or kill your children. I’m not even sure I would trust a decent fence in your situation.

I am a dog lover but this could end in disaster please report this man . Dogs if this size will easily clear a four foot fence and even a six foot one . Hedging won’t be much of a deterrent either . These dogs need to be taken away from him and be rehabilitated.

@ABCDEF1234

Would a strip or two of electric tape above the height of the current fence be cheaper/work? Hopefully high enough so the kids can't reach but be enough to stop the dogs jumping over

Once a dog figures out that the wire is causing pain the dog will just make sure not to tip the wire. And as they are farm dogs they may have already got a belt or two and figured out how to avoid it. Plus as the charge only hits the dog as it's crossing forward momentum results in a dog in pain landing on their side of the fence and it will move away from the source of the pain so further into the property. Add in a determination not to be hurt again and the dog is likely to be more people aggressive as it will associate doing "bad dog" things and being hit by a human. Not a good combo imo.

Thanks everyone. I’ve spoken to the recommended solicitor who advised there wasn’t a lot we could do legally but that we should report him to environmental health which I’ve done.
In terms of the fence, for context, we live on the Yorkshire moors in mainly agricultural land so a panel fence (which they quoted £10,000 for) wouldn’t work. We’re 1300 ft above sea level and the force of the wind can be very strong. As well as the cost, this is why we were looking at thick, prickly hedging instead. The local farmers use stock fencing but, as mentioned, the dogs are getting their heads and shoulders through that.
The neighbour has said the 4ft fencing will remain in place so the idea was to have that plus a 2m prickly hedge in front of it...
The person who reported him to the police has raised a complaint but they were still arguing that feeling threatened couldn’t e enforced in the courts.

I don't wish to alarm you, but this could turn into one of those horror story newspaper front pages (only saying 'could'). I think you have to do everything in your power to change this, record evidence, keep making police reports. The dogs need to be neutered and trained, if at all possible, and you need a secure fence. Accept nothing less for the sake of your children!

What a horrible nightmare. It’s ridiculous that apparently a horrible situation has to happen before something can be done. Please be very careful and protect yourself and your family at all costs.

I'm a dog lover and think GS are beautiful dogs. I'm at angry with this owner for what he has done to two dogs and for the very dangerous situation he has create for your family. Reckless owners rarely realise just how out of control their dogs are. I agree with PP no hedge or fence will keep you safe from those dogs.

I would go back to the police, he admitted to them he has failed to address the behavioural issues and told them he would put a more secure fence in place but is now refusing to do so. I would make a real fuss, keep records of your contact with everyone and put your concerns in writing to anyone who may be able to help.

If the dogs are biting their owner then it is only a matter of time before someone is seriously injures. Do no underestimate the risk and the damage these dogs could do. It's an awful situation, two beautiful dogs will probably need to be PTS through no fault of their own and your family are understandably living in fear of them; the owner has a lot to answer for.

How come the police can't act in response to your husband being bitten? Surely once a dog bites someone, the owner can be prosecuted? Do you have a local dog warden? I would try them if so.

Definitely film the dogs' behaviour but don't let the children out in the garden again. I lived next to a dangerous dog once and our garden was out of bounds to all of us until the dog was seized by the authorities (it was terrifying).

You need to push and push on this. The dogs will get out and clearly they will attack. Keep reporting, keep making a fuss, gather as much evidence as you can and contact everyone who could help. If the police claim that he can't be prosecuted under existing legislation (even though the dog has already bitten your husband!) then contact your MP, give examples of recent tragic cases in the news and demand to know why anyone is allowed to keep dangerous, out of control, aggressive dogs. These animals are a very real threat to your children's lives, you cannot just build a barrier - they need to be taken away from your neighbour. If it means thet get destroyed, it's sad that they were abused and brutalised and made to be so dangerous but ultimately your children's lives are more important, always.

A neighbours dog kept getting into our garden it was aggressive and tried to bite my partner he managed to hit it with a shovel and it backed off. We reported to the police and said we wanted to take it all the way, I have small children. It took the police a while but they turned up with bags of paperwork to take the neighbour to court. In the meantime the dog had escaped and been run over thankfully so we didn't need to Pursue it.