Men's strategic incompetence - AIBU to say it's not just at home?

[Triffid1]

So often on threads I see women who are frustrated at their DPs because they can't do the simplest things at home (I am, obviously, 100% in their camp and agree it's ridiculous) but there's often comments about how it's especially irritating because all these men are supposedly competent at work.

Except, in my experience, soooooo many men are equally strategically incompetent at work and it has zero negative impact on them. AIBU to say this issue is far wider than just not being able to "remember" DC lunchboxes?

I can think of 100 examples without even trying:

The men who could never ever organise their own travel arrangements. So somehow always got someone else to do it. Ditto booking restaurants, arranging meetings etc.

The boss who refused to learn the basics of computer work so that all the junior (women only, natch) who worked for him had to spend time helping him constantly to set up a printer/ print out an email etc.

No man in the history of my working career (25+ years) has organised the leaving/ birthday/wedding/maternity card/gift. Not even the junior ones.

I currently employ freelancers. It is ALWAYS the men who need me to hand hold, "Can you please tell me what the deadline is [because I can't be bothered to click on the link you provided that has all the details]" or "Oh, I don't always see my emails so can you send me a text message if you need something".

At work, skipping all this just allows them more time to network and dazzle with their "brilliance" or to have an easier time of it. Why on earth would they be any different at home?

mmmm more men-hating.

I know women who do this in the work place too 🤷‍♀️

Yay another man bashing thread.

YAAAAAAWN

My male manager organised my maternity collection 🤷‍♀️

In my experience, anyone in the workplace who has achieved a certain level of seniority does this to an extent whether male or female. I always wonder how people end up in such senior roles when they can't perform basic tasks, but then you realise that getting other people to do their basic tasks IS their role. I say if you can't beat em, join em.

@girlmom21

My male manager organised my maternity collection 🤷‍♀️

Oh and yes, my lovely, male former manager arranged my birthday card for me when I'd just started and it made me feel very welcome.

@girlmom21

My male manager organised my maternity collection 🤷‍♀️

I'm very impressed! Sadly, not the case anywhere I've worked. To be fair, I worked in the types of organization not known for being forward thinking!

I suppose I should have clarified with the usual, "not all men". DH finds this as frustrating as I do. But doesn't change the fact that men who are incompetent at home probably choose not to do the boring admin and shitwork at work either.

Not a single part of that is my experience thankfully.

The men who could never ever organise their own travel arrangements. So somehow always got someone else to do it. Ditto booking restaurants, arranging meetings etc

Surely, this is about seniority / delegation? So, you may have a point about structural inequality / why don't more women rise to the top, but this isn't a "strategic incompetence" issue

I’m in a male dominated industry and don’t see this. My own husband is very capable at work as are all our male friends from what I can see.

My husband is incompetent in diy at home, he can do it he just hates it for some reason, so it’s always a bit of a bun fight. The rest he’s perfectly capable.

Baffles me how we ever got to the moon ...

Surely the bigger problem is that the majority of workers in lower paid admin roles (who end up booking the meetings and making the travel arrangements etc) are women?

It is not a good use of time for senior staff to be engaged in basic admin tasks that could easily be delegated to more junior staff. It isn't necessarily incompetence, just a strategic use of resources.

I was going to say exactly what @Pedalpushers said - I work with someone really senior who somehow manages to make it your fault if she hasn't read your email (you sent it at the wrong time, you didn't call her to tell you you'd sent it, you should know how busy she was and that she wouldn't have read it, didn't you know she has eleventy million emails a day and you need to make sure yours is at the top of her mailbox, why didn't you mark it URGENT (I did)).

I don't think it's a male thing, my experience is it's usually a 'don't you know how important I am' thing - there is only one man in our team and he is generally the most proactive at organising team events, remembers birthdays, makes sure people get a leaving present etc

@Tempusfudgeit

Baffles me how we ever got to the moon ...

Black Women mathematicians - www.imdb.com/title/tt4846340/

I work in a highly male dominated industry & work with my husband - he’s become more competent at home since I’ve seen how competent he is at work.

I’ve always had male bosses who have sorted things out for themselves - I have had birthday presents, maternity leave & leaving presents organised by them.

There’s only one male colleague I can think of who is like your OP & that’s not cos he’s male, but because he’s an arsehole.

OP I agree with you completely, and the aghast responses surprise me. It's pretty well researched that women take on a disproportionate share of the 'office housework', regardless of their seniority. Things like cards and gifts and team builds etc

I've experienced exactly what you have. It's definitely NAMALT and I do think it's getting better but I've worked with men who built corporate strategy for a living and would say they were very progressive (sponsored the D&I council etc) but still claimed they couldn't wrap presents and needed their PA to call them each morning to tell them what they needed to do that day.

Increasingly I see women standing back from the office wife work, wise to it now. But it's rarely a man that steps into the void.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

OP I agree with you completely, and the aghast responses surprise me. It's pretty well researched that women take on a disproportionate share of the 'office housework', regardless of their seniority. Things like cards and gifts and team builds etc

I've experienced exactly what you have. It's definitely NAMALT and I do think it's getting better but I've worked with men who built corporate strategy for a living and would say they were very progressive (sponsored the D&I council etc) but still claimed they couldn't wrap presents and needed their PA to call them each morning to tell them what they needed to do that day.

Increasingly I see women standing back from the office wife work, wise to it now. But it's rarely a man that steps into the void.

Well researched where exactly?

@Tempusfudgeit

Baffles me how we ever got to the moon ...

Because the women did the maths?

I take on board the point re seniority, but I'm not just talking about properly senior people. I'm talking about the man at the same level as me who gave his expenses to the team PA to do. Even though officially, that was not her role (and yes, she did them, because she was young, female and junior). And I'm talking about the men who refuse to learn the absolute basics so from when they start their careers, they manage to find someone else (a woman) to format their documents or whatever.

I'm amazed that so many people don't seem to have had this experience but glad. Maybe it's more prevalent in the City and in normal workplaces it just doesn't happen to the same degree. That would be good if true.

And as for seniority - the genuinely senior person who delegates is not an issue for me because I don't think the MD needs to be worrying about the paper in the printer. But at the same time, let's not pretend the number of genuinely senior people is evenly split by sex....

needed their PA to call them each morning to tell them what they needed to do that day.

That's literally what a PA is employed to do

My DH organised every single detail of our wedding. All I did was sort out what I was going to wear. He did everything and the only failure was one missed invitation.

I see strategic incompetence in both sexes but I agree it is more prevalent in men.

I'm talking about the man at the same level as me who gave his expenses to the team PA to do. Even though officially, that was not her role (and yes, she did them, because she was young, female and junior)

If it's not her job, and you were unhappy with his behaviour, why didn't you pull him up on it if she wasn't comfortable doing so?

If he is acting entitled, and nobody tells him to reign it in, he'll carry on.

I've told people more senior (both male and female) than me that a person who reports into me won't be doing what they've asked because it's not their job, because it's my job to look after my reports and make sure they're ok.

and needed their PA to call them each morning to tell them what they needed to do that day

Isn't that what a PA is for?

It’s not just (some) men that do this, I’ve worked with women like this too and it’s not just about seniority. On the flip side, my lovely male manager organised my leaving collection when I left my last job and took the trouble to find a gift he knew I would like.

Some people do try and pass on things they don’t want to do or think are beneath them to younger and/or more inexperienced colleagues, they’re just lazy chancers.