Men's strategic incompetence - AIBU to say it's not just at home?

[Triffid1]

So often on threads I see women who are frustrated at their DPs because they can't do the simplest things at home (I am, obviously, 100% in their camp and agree it's ridiculous) but there's often comments about how it's especially irritating because all these men are supposedly competent at work.

Except, in my experience, soooooo many men are equally strategically incompetent at work and it has zero negative impact on them. AIBU to say this issue is far wider than just not being able to "remember" DC lunchboxes?

I can think of 100 examples without even trying:

The men who could never ever organise their own travel arrangements. So somehow always got someone else to do it. Ditto booking restaurants, arranging meetings etc.

The boss who refused to learn the basics of computer work so that all the junior (women only, natch) who worked for him had to spend time helping him constantly to set up a printer/ print out an email etc.

No man in the history of my working career (25+ years) has organised the leaving/ birthday/wedding/maternity card/gift. Not even the junior ones.

I currently employ freelancers. It is ALWAYS the men who need me to hand hold, "Can you please tell me what the deadline is [because I can't be bothered to click on the link you provided that has all the details]" or "Oh, I don't always see my emails so can you send me a text message if you need something".

At work, skipping all this just allows them more time to network and dazzle with their "brilliance" or to have an easier time of it. Why on earth would they be any different at home?

@JuergenSchwarzwald

it is NOT a good use of my time to do someone else's document formatting if that is not my job. Ever. These are basic skills in today's office place

Hmm so why do we have PAs and paralegals (some of the paralegals are male, the PAs are female, to be fair) in my workplace who do that sort of thing and let the lawyers get on with lawyering?

I feel like there's strategic misunderstanding on this thread.

If it is the PAs job to book travel or do expenses, then of course, I have no issue with the person asking the PA to do it. But in many many offices, there isn't a PA, or the PA is not there to help everyone, and people are expected to be independent. Or there are a million other little tasks. The man who can't work the office coffee machine being a classic example. Phone answering in offices where the rule is the phone must be answered if possible.... amazing how often even the most junior men just ignore it ringing.

I employ freelancers. The list of things they do that piss me off is long, but it is always the men who expect ME to chase them for the work (and miss deadlines), who don't bother to read the guidelines and then either do it wrong or ask me to clarify simple points.

Compared to my Dad, managing him was a doddle.

Why did you have to ‘manage’ your dad @mbosnz?

Yep. My departmental manager seems quite good. He knows what's going on, responds to emails quickly, etc. He employs a female PA, but that's only been a recent thing.

The unit manager (so one rank below departmental manager) is absolutely useless, however. Refuses to send out outlook calendar invites for meetings because he gets all his mail forwarded to his Apple Mail/Gmail or whatever he uses, so "he would need to login to outlook just for that". Can't figure out how to set up anonymous Doodle polls, so we all got to see who else was invited for promotion talks. Refuses to take minutes at unit meetings or set up a rotation system for others to take minutes, so we never have any minutes of our meetings. Suggests it would be nice to have a Christmas do, but does nothing to help make it happen. And on it goes.

@KO81

Compared to my Dad, managing him was a doddle.

Why did you have to ‘manage’ your dad @mbosnz?

Because he was a curmedgeonly old bugger, and for some reason, I seemed to be the dad whisperer, who could ensure that he was a tad more reasonable than he otherwise would have been. . .

Phone answering in offices where the rule is the phone must be answered if possible.... amazing how often even the most junior men just ignore it ringing.

I wouldn't expect any junior staff to answer important phone calls. Why aren't you answering? You must be there if you can hear the phone ringing.

But in many many offices, there isn't a PA

But where a PA has been mentioned in this thread, it's because they do exist in that office. So when it's down to the PA to sort expenses, or "rush over" to help book a restaurant, it's not because they're a woman - it's because it's their role.

It's not a strategic misunderstanding.

I agree that women are often more approachable, and so may be asked by a man who's genuinely unsure how to use the new printer or the new taps in the kitchen. But I haven't seen the same man ask the same question time and time again.

All of your points seem to cast a shadow on your industry and company more than they do men. Not knowing how to perform simple tasks at work never looks good - be it a man or a woman.

I am currently working with two people competing for the title most strategically incompetent.

One male and one female they are both arseholes.

But where a PA has been mentioned in this thread, it's because they do exist in that office. So when it's down to the PA to sort expenses, or "rush over" to help book a restaurant, it's not because they're a woman - it's because it's their role.

You might possibly alluding to my post about a man I used to work with. If you read it again you’ll see I refer specifically to his personal bookings for travel or restaurant, as in not a PA’s job. When it comes to work related things he seems to be able to make calm requests, but affects this ‘panicking useless man’ persona whenever there’s a task that he can’t be arsed to undertake.

Booking his spoilt son’s flights and hotels in Ibiza using the company credit card is no one’s job. But he can’t be bothered so pretends he’s unable.

Sorry that was to @Snoozer11

@mbosnz Because he was a curmedgeonly old bugger, and for some reason, I seemed to be the dad whisperer, who could ensure that he was a tad more reasonable than he otherwise would have been

WHY?!!!

Old women who behave like this are universally disliked. Grumpy old men, however, get a free pass and certain women pussyfoot around them, congratulating themselves on ‘managing’ them. You’re not managing them. You’re yielding to their arsehole behaviour and showing them that their behaviour does not need to change.

We have so far to go…

Not sure about strategic incompetence in men but when it comes to strategic migraines in the workplace women seem to dominate..

[quote ClaudiusTheGod]**@mbosnz* Because he was a curmedgeonly old bugger, and for some reason, I seemed to be the dad whisperer, who could ensure that he was a tad more reasonable than he otherwise would have been*

WHY?!!!

Old women who behave like this are universally disliked. Grumpy old men, however, get a free pass and certain women pussyfoot around them, congratulating themselves on ‘managing’ them. You’re not managing them. You’re yielding to their arsehole behaviour and showing them that their behaviour does not need to change.

We have so far to go…[/quote]
This is why I asked. I had a feeling that poster had probably grown up in an environment whereby the seeds of women having to ‘manage’ men had been sewn.

I mean sown.

@DolphinFC

Not sure about strategic incompetence in men but when it comes to strategic migraines in the workplace women seem to dominate..

I used to worry about this at work. I was struck down by them (hemiplegic or just your common-or-garden aura ones) and I would be rendered a half-blind gibbering wreck. More women suffer with them because hormones. I’m sure people used to think I was faking it. I wasn’t though.

I’m a teacher and am astonished by the incompetence or so many male teachers. A lot have very capable (female) TAs who take up the slack - even down to wrapping their secret Santa presents for them and tidying their classrooms! They all fail upwards to become head teachers. It’s a running joke that ‘a penis’ should be in the desirable characteristics for head and deputy roles.

@thegreenlight All true, sadly.

Yes you are right.
Literally 100% of men are totally incompetent dribbling half wits who try and wipe the blood off the mirror when they cut themselves shaving.
TBH I thought this was a given so I’m surprised you feel the need to start a thread on it.

I can't remember the last time a senior manager booked his own meeting.

Or organised a birthday card.

We're supposed to organise for our team (not necessarily buy the card, but just have the date and get the junior to organise if necessary). But if one of us didn't do it, his immediate report (my manager) wouldn't get a birthday card.

So what I've noticed is that I have to organise the card for my manager because his manager (male) won't bother but I also have to buy the cards for my reports, as that's how it's normally done.

My own manager (male) is lovely and always pulls his weight. But one of the reasons he's estimated as a diamond, is because he does things which in a woman, would be taken for granted.

Hmm. The worst person who I’m come across who was like this was a women, she was promoted to head of the organisation (despite them having to pay out a very large amount due to her bullying of other staff).

I have also seen men ignore the smaller stuff in the hope it disappeared, in a job where we were vastly overworked it was probably a good strategy.

@Snoozer11

Phone answering in offices where the rule is the phone must be answered if possible.... amazing how often even the most junior men just ignore it ringing.

I wouldn't expect any junior staff to answer important phone calls. Why aren't you answering? You must be there if you can hear the phone ringing.

But in many many offices, there isn't a PA

But where a PA has been mentioned in this thread, it's because they do exist in that office. So when it's down to the PA to sort expenses, or "rush over" to help book a restaurant, it's not because they're a woman - it's because it's their role.

It's not a strategic misunderstanding.

I agree that women are often more approachable, and so may be asked by a man who's genuinely unsure how to use the new printer or the new taps in the kitchen. But I haven't seen the same man ask the same question time and time again.

All of your points seem to cast a shadow on your industry and company more than they do men. Not knowing how to perform simple tasks at work never looks good - be it a man or a woman.

I think you are referring to where I said that a man gave the PA his expenses? However, I also said, that in that situation, it was not her job (I didn't spell out the detail but we had one PA in a firm of 20 people. She answered all phones and looked after MD and CEO and performed team/client related tasks at specific times. She did not support other individuals. Not uncommon in large teams with limited PA support).

They all fail upwards to become head teachers. It’s a running joke that ‘a penis’ should be in the desirable characteristics for head and deputy roles.

I can imagine. Not least because I'm always a little surprised at the ratio of male head teachers/male leaders within schools vs the ratio of male staff overall....

@thegreenlight

I’m a teacher and am astonished by the incompetence or so many male teachers. A lot have very capable (female) TAs who take up the slack - even down to wrapping their secret Santa presents for them and tidying their classrooms! They all fail upwards to become head teachers. It’s a running joke that ‘a penis’ should be in the desirable characteristics for head and deputy roles.

This is a really good example of strategic incompetence actually. These tasks free up a lot of time for increased lesson planning, engagement with senior staff and/or parents, individualised lesson plans for specific children etc.... because they're "not good at tidying" or whatever. Sigh.

You're talking out of your misandrist arse, OP.

Could you please define misandrist @TrishM80 and explain why you are accusing the OP of it?

i don't call it strategic incompetence, call it what it is.. Weaponised Incompetence.

I suggest getting this on your spotify or itunes and playing it where they can hear it