To think people should talk about what they earn?

[HoneyBlahBlah]

Recently myself and my colleagues were talking about the hope of wage increases from our company due to inflation. We all agreed that we need to ask for more money, as our wages haven't increased to match inflation.

None of us knew what the others were earning, so I figured I'd just tell them my annual salary. One of the girls who has worked there longer than me (and is therefore more experienced - she helped train me and other colleague) was shocked, as she's on £1k less than me and other colleague. I told her that she needs to discuss this with our Manager, as there's no reason she should earn less.

AIBU to think people need to stop hiding their earnings from others? Surely you're just doing the millionaire business owners a favour by doing so, as nobody knows how much they're worth?

2 trains of thought here. Yes everyone should know what everyone earns in the spirit of openness. No, this shouldn’t be shared because people will be peeved they’re on less, or not enough more, than someone they consider lesser skilled/experienced/qualified etc. The boss isn’t going to suddenly give the peeved pay rises so they’ll become resentful. Looking at what other people have is a very fast way to make yourself miserable.

OP that's really normal unfortunately - the longer you've been at a company, especially in a similar role and not promoted - the more likely you are do he making less than decent hires.

I've been on both sides of this and have seen huge variations in salaries. Where a newer team member was getting way more than an existing one.

It's just about negotiation.

@SockFluffInTheBath

2 trains of thought here. Yes everyone should know what everyone earns in the spirit of openness. No, this shouldn’t be shared because people will be peeved they’re on less, or not enough more, than someone they consider lesser skilled/experienced/qualified etc. The boss isn’t going to suddenly give the peeved pay rises so they’ll become resentful. Looking at what other people have is a very fast way to make yourself miserable.

See, in my opinion, this is the point where you leave and try to find somewhere that WILL pay you more.

If nobody gives you the option then you're going to stay miserable, but if you have the knowledge then you have the power to fix your situation. If more people took action more in this regard we wouldn't be earning crappy wages.

@mummyquestions

OP that's really normal unfortunately - the longer you've been at a company, especially in a similar role and not promoted - the more likely you are do he making less than decent hires.

I've been on both sides of this and have seen huge variations in salaries. Where a newer team member was getting way more than an existing one.

It's just about negotiation.

I agree completely! My point however, is that it shouldn't be normal at all 😔

Unfortunately in most corporate companies I have worked for discussion of salary with other staff members is cause for disciplinary action.

There are numerous reasons why someone might be on more than someone else. More experience, better qualifications, on a better package elsewhere, moved internally through redundancy or reshuffle means they can't reduce salary.

In my company we arnt allowed to discuss pay with each other, you can be disciplined for it. There are lots of perfectly acceptable reasons why colleagues could earn different amounts, everybody knowing about it could just create embarrassment and resentment for some.

When I started with my company I stated the Wage range I was looking for, they said they couldn’t give me the top amount but we negotiated another amount. They did tell me not to discuss wages with other staff as i was being paid more than the others at my level.

However recently they have upped a few to roughly the same wage due to their amount of time in the company.

I have never shared my salary with anyone I work with. Comparing salaries is never helpful. If you don't feel you are earning enough then negotiate, it is irrelevant what the person that is sitting next to you is earning.

A £1k difference in salaries is negligible, and may come about depending on length of services, whether someone has been internally recruited/promoted or externally recruited and had to be attracted into the company, or earns more from previous years performance raises - maybe one year they exceeded expectations and got a great rise for it. Thinking two people in a similar role should be earning exactly the same shows a lack of understanding of recruitment and performance rated pay.

It does not give you any "power" to go into salary negotiations saying you want more because X is earning £1K more than me and we do the same job, no manager needs to justify this. If you want to justify a salary increase you need to sell your skills and the added value you bring to the role.

Absolutely. The secrecy in our culture surrounding pay only perpetuated problems like the gender pay gap. Also there is a huge problem with people slating high earners and accusing them of being insensitive whenever they bring up money. You her it on MN all the time. No one earning above min wage is allowed to feel the pinch, ask about how to make their wage last longer. This race to the bottom where people shame high earners is stupid and counter productive.

Companies can’t stop you from discussing salary.
If you are doing the same job you should get paid the same rate.
Different responsibilities will have different rates and that’s fair.

Companies cannot legally prevent you from discussing your salary, although many try the clauses are not enforceable.

Additionally the right to discuss salary for purposes of equality and collective bargaining is protected in law.

Whilst I would never share my salary without an explicit request I have shared it with colleagues in the past, particularly women I have mentored, where I have felt it is relevant. I also talk about the need to negotiate hard and ask for what you want whether it’s flexibility or sign on bonuses.

I also think it is important from a feminist point of view. How are we supposed to know if we are being paid less than men if we never talk about it.

it is irrelevant what the person that is sitting next to you is earning

I disagree. There are a number of occasions where it’s very relevant, including those relating to discrimination and industry norms.

Everywhere I've ever worked, we weren't allowed to talk about it. But everyone did anyway. People would use it to ask for pay rises. No one ever got in actual trouble for it. I've worked in quite a few companies.

You can talk about what you want with your colleagues. Just be wise about how you use the information.

it is irrelevant what the person that is sitting next to you is earning

Not if they're doing exactly the same job and exactly the same hours it isn't.

I think the best compromise is for there to be publicly available salary bands. So you’ll know colleague x is earning between £25-30k and colleague y is earning between £40-45k for example.

This means there is transparency but also allows for hiring managers to have some flexibility and to take levels of skills and experience into account.

And YANBU OP

Employers can't legally stop their employees from discussing their pay.

And in conjunction with this having frequent and transparent audits investigating for any pay discrimination by protected characteristics, also f/t and p/t etc

The problem is that, while this sounds in theory like a great way to promote equality, it can actually work against the employee too. What happens when you significantly outperform someone at the same level as you? Is your pay rise limited to what they will give the other employee? If you want to move jobs and know you’re worth £50k, but someone else in the team you want to join is only on £45k, do you have to accept that you’ll miss out on that job, even if the employer was willing to pay more for the right candidate?

It's a disciplinary offence to discuss where I work.

I recently got promoted and am on £8k a year less than the last Man that occupied the same role (I knew his salary by accident, not discussion).

For the first year I am letting it slide as a) I was taken on slightly under qualified in comparison and b) mid-pandemic was not the best time to fight for a higher salary in the travel industry, but now I've proved myself capable & things are recovering I'll be going hard for a rise at my next review.

If I hadn't somehow ended up with his payslip sat in my in-tray a few years ago I'd have had no idea of the disparity, so yes I think it should be discussed.

I earn considerably more than my direct counterpart (more than £10k). There are numerous reasons for this but he'd be devastated if I told him, so I don't. The pay difference would never be matched by management so what good would it do? I would just be shit stirring.

@WorriedGiraffe

In my company we arnt allowed to discuss pay with each other, you can be disciplined for it. There are lots of perfectly acceptable reasons why colleagues could earn different amounts, everybody knowing about it could just create embarrassment and resentment for some.

If the reasons a re perfectly acceptable the management would be able to explain them.

"Comparing salaries is never helpful."

Of course it's sometimes helpful. Very important to check for things like gender inequalities.

According to Google, employers can only discipline for discussing pay during work hours.

Unless I've understood it wrong?

I admit I fell down a little rabbit hole and got confused.