To think people should talk about what they earn?

[HoneyBlahBlah]

Recently myself and my colleagues were talking about the hope of wage increases from our company due to inflation. We all agreed that we need to ask for more money, as our wages haven't increased to match inflation.

None of us knew what the others were earning, so I figured I'd just tell them my annual salary. One of the girls who has worked there longer than me (and is therefore more experienced - she helped train me and other colleague) was shocked, as she's on £1k less than me and other colleague. I told her that she needs to discuss this with our Manager, as there's no reason she should earn less.

AIBU to think people need to stop hiding their earnings from others? Surely you're just doing the millionaire business owners a favour by doing so, as nobody knows how much they're worth?

@WorraLiberty

it is irrelevant what the person that is sitting next to you is earning

Not if they're doing exactly the same job and exactly the same hours it isn't.

You also have to consider whether they have the same experience and skills, but yes, it's obviously relevant.

I've always worked in the public sector (local govt/civil service) so everyone knows exactly what everyone else is on anyway, and that everyone doing the same job is earning exactly the same. But then there is no option to ask for any more anyway - you get the base pay and that's it, suck it up or leave.
It also means that people outside my role (e.g. friends/family) can google what I earn as well if they wanted to, as the payscales are publicly available, which I'm fine with. If they asked I'd be happy to tell them as they could easily find out anyway.

"If you are doing the same job you should get paid the same rate."

I think it's valid to pay more for more experience, but what tends to happen is that things can be a bit random. One person negotiated when they started and another didn't, for example.

Disagree with people saying companies won’t raise your salary if you find out someone is being paid more. Based on experience, if you’re in an industry where there’s lots of jobs and there’s a reasonable prospect you’ll leave the company they’ll raise it

"It also means that people outside my role (e.g. friends/family) can google what I earn as well if they wanted to, as the payscales are publicly available, which I'm fine with"

Yes, but they'd need to know your grade and how long you've been there to get it exactly right.

I think in Sweden (?) everyone's income is a matter of public record so you can look up not only what your colleagues earn, but your neighbours too. Cannot imagine that level of openness here.

@Spinner12345

Disagree with people saying companies won’t raise your salary if you find out someone is being paid more. Based on experience, if you’re in an industry where there’s lots of jobs and there’s a reasonable prospect you’ll leave the company they’ll raise it

And sometimes just to keep the peace as well.

My DD has just joined a Union for NHS, but private contract, for non nursing staff after finding out that they are all on different wages. The wages aren't connected to performance etc. They deliberately do contracts that don't include time and a half over weekends and bank holidays. There has been a worry that the leveling might be down and not up.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Comparing salaries is never helpful."

Of course it's sometimes helpful. Very important to check for things like gender inequalities.

Yes, and racial inequalities too.

I agree.
It would also filter down to children and students so they could have realistic expectations for the future.
I think it would stop the over paid Idling along and make the under paid not put themselves unnecessarily.

In principle I'd agree however I've seen these conversations make everything fall to shit.
I oversee subcontractors often,
One had been unhappy with his wages, I've always sort of said, I'm sorry I'm unsure what the going rate is for your trade sort of thing and they get on with work.

Then the team got to talking, turned out one worker was paid significantly more. Within a week one of them was sacked and the other quit his job.
Created a pretty bad ripple effect.
If people are that interested in what new people are being paid, they'll Google and find the job advertisements and use that as a bargaining tool.

It's nothing to do with anyone else what my salary is.

@WorraLiberty

And YANBU OP

Employers can't legally stop their employees from discussing their pay.

Are you a HR expert or lawyer? I’m not and I would never give such unequivocal advice. It’s dangerous for people to listen to advice like this from people unless they can be certain that they are suitably qualified Maybe this is right and maybe it’s not but people need to be very cautious when doing things that could have serious consequences based on anonymous people on a forum

Are you a HR expert or lawyer?

I’m a lawyer and have posted exactly the same up thread.

Now of course your next comment might be well no one knows that you are a lawyer and yes that would be correct.

Hopefully however flagging the issue will encourage those who have had discussions unlawfully suppressed to do their own research rather than unequivocally accept the counter argument that has been widely expressed on this thread that your employer is allowed to prevent you disclosing your salary.

Experience has shown me that you have to leave a company, work for a related company in a similar field for about 2 years and then come back on more money and a senior position.

Bonkers but the joys of working in a the corporate world 😳

@Hoppinggreen it would've taken you less time to Google, than to type that pile...

My colleague (does exactly same job as me and definitely not better than me) told me her salary and turned out she was making 13k p.a. more than me. I was so disheartened. I raised it with management and it was corrected at the next salary review. So I think transparency can work. They'd have NEVER corrected the disparity if I hadn't found out about it.

Yes I completely agree. If I applied for a job and found out it was a clause of employment that it was forbidden to discuss salary I would withdraw my application or turn down the offer of employment and tell them exactly why (I have done this before so I’m not just talking myself up!)

Where I work there are publicly available salary bands and my colleague actually did get a raise to bring her further up the band in line with me and others doing the same role. This is how it should be. As others have said, salary secrecy only perpetuates the gender and racial pay gap. I would happily tell my salary to anyone who asked.

@Eternallyfrazzled

We don’t talk about it enough I recently discovered I was on quite a loss less than other employees whose workloads and skill level was a lot lower than mine! I was been underpaid by approx 3-5k I asked for a pay rise got 5p more an hour so I resigned starting new job soon!

Well done!!!!! Good for you! See what I mean about power? You took it back because you knew what you were worth 😘

@OhGiveUp

It's nothing to do with anyone else what my salary is.

Then, with all due respect, you are part of the problem I'm afraid.

@padsi1975

My colleague (does exactly same job as me and definitely not better than me) told me her salary and turned out she was making 13k p.a. more than me. I was so disheartened. I raised it with management and it was corrected at the next salary review. So I think transparency can work. They'd have NEVER corrected the disparity if I hadn't found out about it.

Exactly! Of course they're not going to offer you more if they don't have to, they'll just line their own pockets with it 🙄

This is why we need to be more open. Thank God the idea of secrecy around wages is dying out

"If people are that interested in what new people are being paid, they'll Google and find the job advertisements and use that as a bargaining tool."

Adverts often only give a range and that would only be for the starting salary.

@TedMullins

Yes I completely agree. If I applied for a job and found out it was a clause of employment that it was forbidden to discuss salary I would withdraw my application or turn down the offer of employment and tell them exactly why (I have done this before so I’m not just talking myself up!)

Where I work there are publicly available salary bands and my colleague actually did get a raise to bring her further up the band in line with me and others doing the same role. This is how it should be. As others have said, salary secrecy only perpetuates the gender and racial pay gap. I would happily tell my salary to anyone who asked.

I'm honestly so shocked at how many people are saying it's forbidden! It's the big bosses way of making sure nobody knows their worth, and therefore keeps everyone on as little as possible.

@Frenchfancy

I also think it is important from a feminist point of view. How are we supposed to know if we are being paid less than men if we never talk about it.

The gender pay reporting is there to reveal any organisation wide problems.

I’m sure when Labour were in power they were pushing towards all salaries being disclosed.

As they should be imo.