To think the real salary should have been advertised?

[littlepieces]

I've just been through over four months of interviews, reference checks etc. for a public sector job. Yesterday HR called me to confirm details and casually dropped the bombshell that they're offering me a lower salary than was advertised. I was meant to qualify for a London salary uplift, as it's a London based role, but because the department is working remotely due to Covid that isn't happening now.

BUT, the department has been working remotely since the start of the pandemic, March 2020.

So why didn't they just advertise the remote salary? I would never have applied and wasted my time if they had. Without the uplift I'll be taking a pay cut. AIBU or would I be right to challenge this?

@Whatayear81

I would ask that the pay uplift is honoured if and when there is a change to remote working and i am In office more

That won't happen though, realistically, will it? If they really thought that they were going to start paying her that in spring/summer then no one would see much point messing around with it now - they'd just pay it from the off.

@littlepieces

Eventually they'd like to move to hybrid working, minimum of two days a week in the office. Likely back in the office this spring/summer if infection rate drops again.

They didn't ask me about previous salary, but you'd have to assume that people applying for a job are hoping for the salary that's been stated on the job ad.. surely?

Public Sector don't habitually ask about previous salary from a successful candidate. They will go through the standard recruitment and interview process with the salary range and grade provided in the role advert, then they will discuss what salary expectations the candidate has in line with the advertised role.

How far off your expected salary is their offer now that they've said it isn't going to be London based?

The uplift isn't just for commuting costs, it's for general cost of living right? Unfortunately I'm stuck in London for a while, by circumstance, which is why I applied for a London job. I still have London area housing costs

I think this is one of the main issues with London weighting and its fair application. Someone who commutes to London but lives in a cheaper part of the country will have been substantially better off whilst working from home and enjoying cheaper cost of living and no commuting costs than their colleagues still paying the same London prices for rent etc. I think it's an aspect of wfh long term that doesn't really have a satisfactory solution all round.

It is technically possible to start above the bottom of the grade, but it's not the norm and has to be a lot of justification for doing so.

@Whatayear81

Public sector mass recruitment

Op - you’ll be out on your ear before you’ve even started if you start digging your heels in

That's not true, the OP will not be "out on their ear" for having a reasonable discussion.

I would suggest sending an email to the recruitment manager involved, unemotionally outlining why you believe you deserve the higher salary. Just say that you understood the starting salary would be x and you feel that would be more appropriate because your currently earning x, you have x years experience of y, you have specialist skills x, y and z (or showing you meet or exceed the JD essential requirements) and that you would appreciate if they could consider appointing you on x salary.

Don’t be accusatory or emotional - just factual and calm.

That all sounds really negative on reading it back, so for balance don't be put off by the salary issue on its own. I've found the civil service usually a great place to work and grow my career, as the other benefits like flexible working, pension and work life balance can be good (note it's very role dependent so if this role doesn't work well then once you're past probation you can move internally or between departments easily to find the right fit for your needs, some roles I've had have been awful!).

There is lots of opportunity for progression up the grades if you want to increase wage and responsibility, and the work is varied and interesting. So consider the longer term benefits as well as just this wage and job.

And mention that you live in London!

I didn’t say “reasonable discussion”, did I?

I said “digging your heels in”

Two VERY different approaches

@littlepieces

Thanks everyone.

It's an enormous organisation, one of the biggest. They had multiple ads for a few locations and apparently successful candidates will be placed on the most relevant project to their skillet, regardless of location, since it doesn't matter while everyone is wfh. The HR rep brushed over this like it was fine. I don't think that's fine. I'm quite upset and stressed about it. I was really looking forward to starting, it's a slightly new step in my career. Now I'm suspicious this isn't going to be a good place to work. Also I didn't apply for the role for fun, I applied for the increased salary... It drives me nuts when companies brush off salary concerns as if employees are there for fun!

The uplift isn't just for commuting costs, it's for general cost of living right? Unfortunately I'm stuck in London for a while, by circumstance, which is why I applied for a London job. I still have London area housing costs. Like PPs have said, there are rarely salary increases once you're in public sector. Has anyone here managed to negotiate more than base starting salary for a public sector role?

Sorry, OP, please could you clarify what you mean re the projects and what you think isn’t fine? Are they offering different work to what was advertised as well as a different salary?

If you return as early as the spring, it makes no sense to remove London weighting as it could be as little as 3 months.

So - what they’re going to increase your salary then? Of course they won’t. You may well end up working hybrid without London weighting.

I’d be extremely concerned about the level of competence of this department and their general funding.

Even if the policy changed after the salary was advertised they either need to honour the original rate or inform you early in the process.

I work in the public sector and we recently had a bulk recruitment round. It's a nightmare hiring at the moment so you may have more leverage than you think.

More than half our successful candidates withdrew after accepting offers to take other jobs.

Another said that the salary offered wasn't enough. I was told just to let them have more even though they didn't come close to meeting the "exceptional" criteria. At that point we were just desperate to get people in.

There may be some scope to move you within the salary band (but zero to go beyond it). It is more standard on initial recruitment to do that based on qualifications though I’m pretty sure - from comparing startying salaries in my public sector cohort - that there is more flex (people with similar qualifications and work experience on slightly different packages by £1k or so). London allowance is not pensionable where salary is so in financial terms a salary increase has better long term benefit i.e. you may need slightly less to even things up.

I would assume the salary advertised would be the one offered. If they planned to offer a lower wfh salary,they should have said that in the advert.

No harm in having the conversation.

@Abigail12345654321

I would suggest sending an email to the recruitment manager involved, unemotionally outlining why you believe you deserve the higher salary. Just say that you understood the starting salary would be x and you feel that would be more appropriate because your currently earning x, you have x years experience of y, you have specialist skills x, y and z (or showing you meet or exceed the JD essential requirements) and that you would appreciate if they could consider appointing you on x salary.

Don’t be accusatory or emotional - just factual and calm.

This would be essentially pointless if we’re all right in assuming that it’s a civil service role, it’s a weird world with its own rules. All the hiring manager can do is lean on HR a bit by email (not even by phone at the moment usually ‘due to Covid’), they’ll have no formal influence over the salary. They don’t want or need any information on how deserving OP is of y amount rather than x amount, they only need to know that there’s a hurdle in their recruitment process.

You need to say something if you can. They've wasted your time and potentially will waste many others. If you're not going to take the job then I'd let them know it was because of an 8k discrepancy.

Very shabby behaviour by them, I think - deceitful at worst and totally unorganised and chaotic at best. They've had two years to consider and amend their advertising.

What a waste of time for you (and doubtless, other applicants in the same boat).

You don’t understand how civil service recruitment works. You just presumed you’d get London weighting. This isn’t tied to where you live, but whether you work in the london office. Central policy is that you need to be going to the london office at least 2-3 days a week to qualify. All job adverts say that staff is WFH due to Covid at the moment. Hence, you don’t get London weighting. If this changes in the future, you might get LW then, but that depends on your department’s policy.

You shouldn’t have presumed you’d just get the extra money if you don’t actually understand how it works, you should have asked.

@Whatayear81

I didn’t say “reasonable discussion”, did I?

I said “digging your heels in”

Two VERY different approaches

Now now. It’s clear you thought Op should shut up and put up. No need to be rude just because you were wrong.

@pingywingy It's the same job title and responsibility level in all locations but there will be slight differences in day to day tasks dependant on the project. If that makes sense.

@Dguu6u

You don’t understand how civil service recruitment works. You just presumed you’d get London weighting. This isn’t tied to where you live, but whether you work in the london office. Central policy is that you need to be going to the london office at least 2-3 days a week to qualify. All job adverts say that staff is WFH due to Covid at the moment. Hence, you don’t get London weighting. If this changes in the future, you might get LW then, but that depends on your department’s policy.

You shouldn’t have presumed you’d just get the extra money if you don’t actually understand how it works, you should have asked.

I do understand. The job was specifically advertised as based in London with a London weighted salary, as I explained in my OP.

@1frenchfoodie

There may be some scope to move you within the salary band (but zero to go beyond it). It is more standard on initial recruitment to do that based on qualifications though I’m pretty sure - from comparing startying salaries in my public sector cohort - that there is more flex (people with similar qualifications and work experience on slightly different packages by £1k or so). London allowance is not pensionable where salary is so in financial terms a salary increase has better long term benefit i.e. you may need slightly less to even things up.

None of this would be applicable in my part of the civil service (or any part that I’m aware of). London weighting isn’t normal salary + £8k allowance, it’s a different pay band altogether with different minima and maxima, and whatever salary you’re paid is all taxable and pensionable in the normal way.

@Dguu6u

You don’t understand how civil service recruitment works. You just presumed you’d get London weighting. This isn’t tied to where you live, but whether you work in the london office. Central policy is that you need to be going to the london office at least 2-3 days a week to qualify. All job adverts say that staff is WFH due to Covid at the moment. Hence, you don’t get London weighting. If this changes in the future, you might get LW then, but that depends on your department’s policy.

You shouldn’t have presumed you’d just get the extra money if you don’t actually understand how it works, you should have asked.

It’s you that’s failed to understand how it works. Like, spectacularly failed to do so. And been needlessly rude in the process. Great stuff.

Did you see my first post.

I didn’t say “put up and shut up”

I suggested negotiation.

How odd

I'm public sector. My organisation always offer the lowest amount within grade at first offer. Really pisses me off.

I'd suggest you go back to them and politely say that wasn't the offer you were expecting, or what was advertised. You were looking in the region of xxx. Ask for more than you want.
I wish I had done when they said 'that's all we can offer'. Now they're saying I should have negotiated on contract offer. Arseholes.

Ah interesting @pingywingy - London Location Allowance in my central government department is a stardard top up added at the same rate to each london based staff salary regardless of grade. Hopefully OP can work out if her potential employer has your model or mine.