To think the real salary should have been advertised?

[littlepieces]

I've just been through over four months of interviews, reference checks etc. for a public sector job. Yesterday HR called me to confirm details and casually dropped the bombshell that they're offering me a lower salary than was advertised. I was meant to qualify for a London salary uplift, as it's a London based role, but because the department is working remotely due to Covid that isn't happening now.

BUT, the department has been working remotely since the start of the pandemic, March 2020.

So why didn't they just advertise the remote salary? I would never have applied and wasted my time if they had. Without the uplift I'll be taking a pay cut. AIBU or would I be right to challenge this?

@cuck00soup The ad read exactly like this:

Role location: London
Salary range: £XX - £XX (subject to X% London salary uplift).

The "uplift" isn't part of your salary, it's an uplift.

For comparison purposes with other similar roles, your salary is your salary. They pay you an allowance if you live in London.

It sounds as if you don't live in London.

(It also stated pay grade/band)

You have nothing to lose by stating this is a deal breaker for you and that you expect the salary to be as advertised. Salaries are always negotiable. I managed to get two NHS admin posts regraded once (increasing them by several grand). Yes there was a lot of paperwork, but it was possible.

Advertising one salary and then paying another...well, that would be called "lying" in other contexts!

Fight this, politely and persistently.

Thank you @Mummyoflittledragon that's very kind.

They had multiple ads for a few locations and apparently successful candidates will be placed on the most relevant project to their skillet, regardless of location, since it doesn't matter while everyone is wfh.

So this is the first time they’ve mentioned that the time was advertised across different locations?

Are they still placing you in the London office? Can you get assurance in writing on the uplift when the office reopens?

London Weighting is and always has been an allowance and not salary....but they should have made clear in the ad that it would only be paid when employees are actually attending an office in the correct area.

Often bulk recruitment will be outsourced to Capita or the like. Your manager might have had nothing to do with the recruitment process. All they had to do was say they had a vacancy and pick you from the list of successful candidates. They need to now step up to the plate and intervene on your behalf with Shared Services (another outsourced HR provider) to get the correct salary applied. I had similar with a cross govt campaign and our Departmental minimum was below the advertised scale. Had to honour the advert. Needed to fill in a form and get it authorised. HR actioned it no questions.

Have you still got the advert? They have a habit of disappearing from CS Jobs.

Op. Yes I have been able to get a successful negotiation on a public sector role - to start at or near top of range. I think I was successful as they knew me. I'd worked for them as a consultant for years. They knew it would be a salary drop for me otherwise. It had to be signed off by a senior manager.. but I did succeed. A friend of mine was turned down so didn't take the job.

I wouldn't accept 8k less no way. I think its a shirty thing they have done.

Also there is Reddit civil service subedit which is very helpful. Name the department if you post there.
www.reddit.com/r/TheCivilService

Yes I screenshotted it actually so I could check the role spec to prep for the interview, in case they took the ad down.

Also maybe 'mass hiring' isn't the right phrase - I think they hired 4-5 people rather than tens or hundreds. Middle management level.

Agree that you should involve the hiring manager or at least copy them on correspondence. They are the one that will have a problem if their vacancy isn't filled. HR doesn't particularly care one way or the other. The manager will be the one who has to sort any business case for a salary uplift too.

You can't expect London weighting if you're working from home.

@Orchid876

If you're in London, look for a different job in the private sector, you'll likely be paid loads more. Over Xmas we met up with my DHs family, all working in London in various professional fields. His cousin is a Civil Servant, she was debating leaving the CS, but worried she'd be on worse T&C in the private sector. Every single person there who works in the private sector had comparable T&Cs, it's a bit of a myth that the CS is so much better. And they get paid more than she does, a lot more. I'd be leaving the public sector now too if my role wasn't very niche, but I'm working on updating my skill set so I can leave too. The public sector is a sinking ship, for most CS roles, the same skills can get you a whole load more cash in the private sector in London.

It’s very much not a myth that civil service pensions, in particular, are considerably better for almost everyone than those available almost anywhere in the private sector. I’m not arguing for one in favour of the other, but it’s important to understand that CS pensions are essentially unparalleled.

Is the salary they've offered inside the 'salary range' in the advert? If so, then they have offered you the advertised salary, the issue is that they're not offering the London weighting for a role where they expect people to attend the london office 2-3 days per week.

I'd check first, whether you can get paid at the top of the salary range (salary always better than the london weighting) and then check that the london weighting would be reinstated when people are back in the office. If they can't confirm that then I would ask whether they will be paying expenses for travel and accomodation (if there's no requirement to pay the weighting as you're not restricted to london, there's no need for you to live commuting distance away) and get all responses in writing/added to contract. Then you can make a decision whether you take a pay cut which may be temp for a potentially better role.

FWIW I think any company who removes the london weighting because people don't have to commute to the office now, but fully expects them to commute in the future is immoral, it's not like you're going to sell up and live somewhere cheaper for a few months is it! (and I know it's Gov not corp but same applies)

You already sound like hard work OP.

If you're coming from external then you can look to negotiate a starting salary that's almost least commensurate with your existing pay. It's called a recruitment allowance. You should speak to the hiring manager and set out that you'd need a higher starting salary. That's why there are bands. As a hiring manager in CS this happens pretty regularly, but you'll need the justification.

Going in with complaints and fairness and all that shite will basically end with you failing probation...if you start with a chip on your shoulder it will be a chip butty within 6 months.

I’d say the devil is in the details of that advert.

The salary was stated. Then the “subject to” clause. So the uplift is not part of the salary, and is not guaranteed.

DS works for CS, in the Home Office. They have been told that they will lose London uplift if they do not work in the office for more than 2 days a week - so 5 days a fortnight. This is subject to line manager agreement.

If they are planning on your role being in the office just 2 days a week, it possibly means it wouldn’t attract the uplift.

The fact they advertised the role at the London uplift level, despite having decided not to pay it, is about the level of HR DS has experienced. He loves his work and that he can make a difference (sometimes) but he really dislikes the support structures.

I was recruited at a mid gateway point of a band to avoid a pay cut but I had put my previous salary down in the section where it asks about current and past roles and the option to add salary. I said to the hiring manager that I couldn’t take it if it were at starting point, they approached somebody (not sure of job title) for approval which was granted due to prior experience and my starting point was 3 gateways up the band. This was about 10 -15 years ago though so I’m not sure if it’s still possible but might be worth a try

@Unhomme

You already sound like hard work OP.

If you're coming from external then you can look to negotiate a starting salary that's almost least commensurate with your existing pay. It's called a recruitment allowance. You should speak to the hiring manager and set out that you'd need a higher starting salary. That's why there are bands. As a hiring manager in CS this happens pretty regularly, but you'll need the justification.

Going in with complaints and fairness and all that shite will basically end with you failing probation...if you start with a chip on your shoulder it will be a chip butty within 6 months.

Ludicrous post.

You already sound like hard work OP.

Because she spent time and effort going through the recruitment process for an advertised level and salary only to be told "soz, we are cost cutting, salary is now X-8k"?

As a hiring manager in CS this happens pretty regularly, but you'll need the justification

So you regularly recruit people based on an advertised salary, then after a months long expensive recruitment process you drop the salary offer and expect people to justify the advertised salary?

Good grief, no wonder public sector struggles to recruit and retain high calibre staff.

Op this would be a deal breaker for me. Like others have said definitely try and renegotiate this.

Good luck.

I would query if the people already in the role have had their london weighting removed - I would strongly suspect not. This was raised in my civil service job (I'm senior in our union) as regional offices were saying it was unfair that the London staff were still getting paid their London weighting while many of them had moved out of London in the last 2 years of wfh. Senior management were adamant that they wouldn't remove London weighting as it would be unfair for those that were used to it as part of their salary and most staff hadn't left London. So it would be unfair to remove it from new recruits only, particularly if the end expectation is that you will need to be in the office at least 1-2 times a week.

Companies can always reinstate the London weighting when and if employees start commuting. You can't expect the allowance if you're at home and it's less hassle and cheaper for you to WFH so what's the problem?
The company could have put a notation on the ad saying that WFH does not attract the allowance but as others have said, these ads are usually outsourced and haven't been checked by the business itself.

@Unhomme

You already sound like hard work OP.

If you're coming from external then you can look to negotiate a starting salary that's almost least commensurate with your existing pay. It's called a recruitment allowance. You should speak to the hiring manager and set out that you'd need a higher starting salary. That's why there are bands. As a hiring manager in CS this happens pretty regularly, but you'll need the justification.

Going in with complaints and fairness and all that shite will basically end with you failing probation...if you start with a chip on your shoulder it will be a chip butty within 6 months.

Patent nonsense and can be safely ignored.