To think so many middle-class clothes are ugly?

[RoyalFamilyFan]

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

This precisely it. I can't unsee the comments on here and the dress which I thought was stylish and quirky is now tainted with the 'fugly' label and ageist sizeist throwaway bitcheries.

This is so sad, that your pleasure in your purchase has been spoilt.

At least try it on first. With the silver jewellery and right shoes.

Toast is miles different from Seasalt, fat face, etc. They are mumsy. Toast is arty.

Waves to @Bideshi - I’m short and curvy and I just love me a Toast dress. Enjoy it! Heaven knows what signals I’m sending as I wear any and everything from sparkly tights, pinafore dresses with a dinosaur pattern (but possibly not at the same time) vintage tweed coats and anything in between. I feel happy inside when I see people who dress individually and in ways that express themselves. I feel depressed looking at a sea of drab grey and beige acrylic (any high street near me). My aesthetic starts to blend in seamlessly if I’m ever in Hebden Bridge or Totnes or similar towns with an arty vibe, but I do stand out a bit otherwise. I guess it’s a fair enough observation that the ‘arty’ look is often observed on a certain sort of ‘middle class’ person, but it’s also true enough that ‘middle class’ can be signified by quietly expensive outdoor clothing that makes the wearer look as though they wandered in from their rural idyll rather than their office. Maybe people laugh at me behind my back (wouldn’t be the first time, if so) but I’m happy as can be mixing up things from vintage kilo sales, charity shops and eBay. I have two rules: I don’t buy new clothing unless underwear (obviously) and I avoid man-made fibres. That’s it.

I wonder what Toast think of this thread? And do they care?

Bideshi

alannabanana81

It make might you feel better to know I once bought a dress from monsoon which I really liked. it was discussed on here - unflattering comparisons to Elmer the elephant. sadly, in my case mumsnet was right and I couldn't unsee myself as Elmer!
I'm sure your dress is lovely- don't be put off x

This precisely it. I can't unsee the comments on here and the dress which I thought was stylish and quirky is now tainted with the 'fugly' label and ageist sizeist throwaway bitcheries

Oh Bideshi that is such a shame, but for every comment saying "fugly" etc there's another saying this style of dress is lovely. Including me and this is is blowing my own trumpet but even at 62 I get random strangers on the street giving me compliments about what I'm wearing. So whose opinion would you pay more attention to?

The dresses the OP praised are absolutely horrible in my view, but I bet she won't care.

There are some horribly ageist comments but just ignore them.

Bideshi - but no amount of people posting up on here can show whether or not the dress suits you and feels good on you! Why on earth send back something if you like it? So what if it's middle-class? So what? Perhaps it really suits you? Perhaps it expresses something you want to express. Maybe some people on the internet don't like it. So what? Probably lots of people in real life will. I'm sure the OP wasn't meaning to have such an effect and make you doubt yourself. And I don't think she meant to be ageist and sizeist. I haven't read all the other comments. Also it sounds like the OP is in the minority anyway in her views on many outlets - so enjoy your dress. Please. It's such a shame if you liked it to send it back just because of a quite light-hearted thread surely.

[quote Ninkanink]@Bideshi don’t send it back! If you liked it and felt comfortable/good in it then you don’t need to give a single fuck whether or not it meets with approval from anyone else. Seriously. Keep it, lounge in it and enjoy it.[/quote]
No, don’t send it back because of a spiteful thread filled with vitriolic posts. Look at some of the fashion choices the critics make and put their unpleasant comments in context. If OP approved my style choices I’d be really upset now I’ve seen what she likes.

This precisely it. I can't unsee the comments on here and the dress which I thought was stylish and quirky is now tainted with the 'fugly' label and ageist sizeist throwaway bitcheries.

You know there will always be someone, somewhere who is going to be making some petty judgement about every aspect of other people's lives. If you like it, wear it. It sounds lovely, and even if some people may not agree, does it matter? Are you really going to let differences in taste destroy your own pleasure in something you like?

I wonder if Seasalt will see this thread? I’m sure they assume all Cornish people love their brand but we don’t!

We really really don’t!

"The dresses the OP praised are absolutely horrible in my view, but I bet she won't care."

And I've really enjoyed the OP's comments because she makes me laugh - but I agree with the above too! (But I don't think the OP will mind this either). So Bideshi - don't listen to randoms on the internet - please!

Will probably send back now.
Please don't be influenced by anyone on here. To thine own self be true or to put it another way fuck them.

Because its sold by a company that appeals and indeed targets the middle class aesthetic and price point. If you're selling every day dresses for £300 you're not a WC brand

But almost two thirds of people in the UK are deemed 'middle class' so essentially these brands are selling to the masses

@Hadtocomment

"I don't think plain and shapeless look ugly they just put the focus on the fabric and sometimes an abstract shape rather than the shape of the body and often draw focus to the wearers face, hair or accessories."

I sort of agree with this. But I also think that things that fit you well (or at least I find this) usually ARE more comfortable and move well with you. For example I have a pair of trouser very loose that were a bit of a "trendy" shape at the time. They are very loose and comfortable until you start going uphill and then they are just loose and tight in ALL the wrong places! There's a reason for standard human shapes I suppose. Whereas I have another pair of more fitted trousers that because they fit the shape of me very well - they are very comfortable moving about and going uphill and whatever. They move well. They are presumably cut and fitted with that in mind.

What I think is hard to find is stuff that fits all sorts of body types well. Or are cut well with different body shapes in mind. I find it hard to believe some of these so-called "don't care" clothes ARE that practical. because how do you fit voluminous sleeves with huge amounts of material under a jumper it's cold? Or how do you stop it sweating up awkwardly if you manage it? How do you stop a shapeless dress billowing over your head in the wind (yep this has happened - excrucriatingly - to me before ). Is a shapeless dress with the waist that's obviously in the wrong place and huge amounts of material attached in there and a super-high constricting neck really that comfortable for many of us?

Also - we are all shapes and sizes and most people do want to find something that suits them and looks nice on them and is also comfortable - basically something they feel good in. If you get something that really fits you well it is a revelation in how comfortable it can be in comparison to something that's just not quite right or awkward or that doesn't move well with you. Something loose and voluminous doesn't necessarily feel more comfortable than something that is really designed for your body shape. Something that gathers and pulls in all the wrong places isn't necessarily either. And voluminous can be a nightmare and difficult to wash as well.

I;m not critical of other people wearing anything they want. I suppose what brings these discussions about is that the fashions do tend to dictate what's out there and the styles of the moment dominate and it can be frustrating how little effort is taken to make clothes that work beautifully for different body tupes. I think a lot of these fashions are no more than fashions really - it's not really about people not caring about how they look. Because if people really didn't care why pay so much money for the privilege?

@Hadtocomment Very true. And it needs to be pointed out, again, that there's a certain amount of privilege involved in being able to wear such shapeless clothes in the first place because your body needs to be less curvy in order to find those clothes comfortable. Even if you don't care about looking "good", the clothes still need to basically fit, and we still need to look suitable for work.

It's easy to not care about the male gaze when you're tall, willowy and small-breasted, because the unsexy, unfitted clothes are actually made for your body shape. Even if they don't accentuate your shape, they still basically look good on you. For those of us with breasts, waists and hips, those clothes are a disaster because, as mentioned above, when they don't fit properly they don't feel comfortable, and they keep pulling in the wrong places and you'd be constantly adjusting things. Ted's a woman with a large cup size, fitted tops are better for me because otherwise there'd be a load of spare fabric hanging everywhere and it would get very annoying very quickly.

I like man repellent clothes!

Does anyone have any links of working class clothes that are nice?

@Mamamia344 yes!! Good question. I’d love to know!

@Bideshi

In the nicest possible way, fuck what other people (including me) think. They don't wear these clothes. It's your life. You need to have a bit of a thicker skin about this sort of thing.

People are just freewheeling with their opinions here and some of us (and I would definitely put myself into this category) have gone a bit overboard. You really shouldn't invest in the opinions of a bunch of random blowhards on the internet. Wear what you like.

@Dullrugby

Toast is miles different from Seasalt, fat face, etc. They are mumsy. Toast is arty.

Toast is not 'arty'. It's a high street brand.

This is from cabbages and roses. Looked on their website. They are VERY expensive. Lots of summer dresses that look they would be worn by the beautiful young women on the weird Mark Jacobs perfume advert where they say daisy daisy daisy over and over .
I would look very very odd in all.of them.

I like man repellent clothes!
Men are not so easy to repel no matter what you wear.

Wow @AngelinaFibres that’s a lot of fabric in one dress!! I’d fall down the stairs wearing that - it looks huge! I’m 5ft 4

@Hadtocomment

Bideshi - but no amount of people posting up on here can show whether or not the dress suits you and feels good on you! Why on earth send back something if you like it? So what if it's middle-class? So what? Perhaps it really suits you? Perhaps it expresses something you want to express. Maybe some people on the internet don't like it. So what? Probably lots of people in real life will. I'm sure the OP wasn't meaning to have such an effect and make you doubt yourself. And I don't think she meant to be ageist and sizeist. I haven't read all the other comments. Also it sounds like the OP is in the minority anyway in her views on many outlets - so enjoy your dress. Please. It's such a shame if you liked it to send it back just because of a quite light-hearted thread surely.

No problem with being middle class, HTC. Not a thing I can really help. Lots of lighthearted comments here which did make me smile. But lots of really nasty ones too.

Thanks for all the lovely encouraging comments everyone who replied. I think the answer is the foolproof Daughter Test. I have 2. I'll run the dress past them - they are the Gold Standard of what I not to wear, and are encouraging about what does work.

@JaneJeffer

I like man repellent clothes! Men are not so easy to repel no matter what you wear.

So true. I’ve had two husbands and a LOT of sex while wearing said man repellent clothes!

@Cornisharchitect

Wow *@AngelinaFibres* that’s a lot of fabric in one dress!! I’d fall down the stairs wearing that - it looks huge! I’m 5ft 4

I'm your height too. Had a dress similar to the one I attached when I was about 10. Used to waft the skirt about. It had pockets. I loved it and wore it til it fell to bits. At 56 I would look like a member of the Brethren church.

They want to see just how far people will go to be 'on trend' 😂😂

In their defence, the first 15 years of Toast collections were gorgeous - velvets, needlecords, woven wools, tailored trousers, flattering dresses, summer linens, traditional knitwear. All very understated, natural shapes, tactile fabrics, easy to wear, and very much doing their own thing. They were always expensive, but with very generous archive sales.

It started going downhill during the past decade. Lots of fashion gimmicks, harsher fabrics and unnatural shapes, where the clothes wear you. I look at their photos and videos now and think they're for women who hate their bodies, and want to hide as much as possible. So I agree OP, and I'm a bit bereft because they used to be the backbone of my very limited wardrobe.

Toast changed hands during this time, and it would've been clearer to retire the name and rebrand, the style and ethos is so different now. I wish they'd re-run those first 15 years, so I could re-buy old favourites! It's even getting hard to find early years Toast on the second-hand sites.