To think so many middle-class clothes are ugly?

[RoyalFamilyFan]

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

@TatianaBis

www.cabbagesandroses.com/full-fairisle-stole-in-orange.html

Love this.

Beautiful.

I so want this dress but it's only in an 8

www.cabbagesandroses.com/derry-dress-in-red-needle-cord.html

@ArabellaScott

Its more perplexity as to why some categories of middle aged women want to embrace looking like sacks.

In all seriousness, though - why do you care?

I do like the sack shape, yep. I don't care what anyone else wears, why does it bother you how I dress?

I don't care, really, its a free country as they say and people can wear what they want. I grew up surrounded by people who dress like this and was forced into clothes like this as a child so I am probably acting out a bit.

But the OP asked if she was alone in finding this way of dressing unappealing and I'm saying no, I totally get it. I've always struggled to understand the appeal of this hessian aesthetic.

@tectonicplates

I also often deliberately dress to subvert the tyranny of fashion

I have to laugh at all the people who think they're being subversive by being "anti-fashion". Toast and Cos are still fashion companies. They still go through a multi-stage design process, choosing colours, sampling, manufacturing, testing, modelling, identifying and targeting their target audience, and clearly very careful marketing to create their chosen vibe. It's still part of the fashion industry. You're about as subversive as teenage Goths who think they're all individuals until they start going to gigs and realising everyone's wearing the same band t-shirt. Toast and Cos sell thousands of clothes every year, all to people who want the same look as you. There's no such thing as anti-fashion. Everything is influenced by something.

Again, I’m not sure how many times I can repeat things.

Obviously I’m not an individual in terms of fashion sense. I have never claimed to be. Nor am I being anti-fashion by shopping from a particular brand. I have never claimed to be.

Obviously I understand exactly how marketing works - it’s very basic and straightforward and anyone who isn’t a complete numpty knows all that.

I said I’ve been anti-fashion in my time, and I have.

I’m talking here specifically about the tyranny of fashion in terms of ideal of the female form, female dress, female behaviour and female attractiveness. I subvert the idea, every time I choose to wear this type of clothing, that a woman should dress to flatter her figure, to attract or keep a man, or that she must always try to ‘look her best’ or choose ‘pretty/sexy’ items to wear. I like to actively say, no, I don’t want to play that particular game.That’s all.

However I don’t do that all the time. I’m not a cardboard cut-out.

I’m not claiming to be above human psychology. Because that would be stupid. However I can still make what choices I do or don’t make with certain principles in mind, in a way that is as intellectually honest and authentic as possible.

@TatianaBis

Their knitwear is great but the winsome dresses are oversized Laura Ashley

I was a big fan of Laura Ashley from mid 70s to well into the noughties.

They lost their way at the end ( and too many artificial fabrics and overseas production didn't help)

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare I don't think I am criticising others tastes. I don't think anyone liked the dress I posted that I really love. Although I rarely wear them, I love quirky clothing.
But I simply cant see the appeal of shapeless grey and sludge coloured dresses. I do think it is a case of marketing and being seen to not care about how you look. Because I think without this, nobody would choose this "style".[/quote]
calling something 'incredibly ugly' is obviously completely subjective, and obviously criticising other people's taste.

@KimikosNightmare

It’s massive though it would fit up to 14 I’d say.

@FangsForTheMemory

How the fuck can a garment be middle-class?

Because its sold by a company that appeals and indeed targets the middle class aesthetic and price point. If you're selling every day dresses for £300 you're not a WC brand

I don't think the UK is considered by anyone to be a sartorial Shangri-La.

I so want this dress but it's only in an 8

www.cabbagesandroses.com/derry-dress-in-red-needle-cord.html

Well that's something I never thought I'd see on a clothing website: "A beautiful egg shaped silhouette"...

she must always try to ‘look her best’ or choose ‘pretty/sexy’ items to wear. I like to actively say, no, I don’t want to play that particular game

the tyranny of expectations that women have an obligation to 'make an effort' and look presentable/naice/pretty/shapely/alluring/young. Yes, fuck that.

So many people saying they've not noticed any association between social class and clothes. Is that like when David Cameron tried to say he was just a regular member of the middle classes

I was a big fan of Laura Ashley from mid 70s to well into the noughties

Me too and many of their early patterns were classics. I wish they were still available.

Don’t really want to wear a supersized version though.

@alannabanana81

It make might you feel better to know I once bought a dress from monsoon which I really liked. it was discussed on here - unflattering comparisons to Elmer the elephant. sadly, in my case mumsnet was right and I couldn't unsee myself as Elmer! I'm sure your dress is lovely- don't be put off x

This precisely it. I can't unsee the comments on here and the dress which I thought was stylish and quirky is now tainted with the 'fugly' label and ageist sizeist throwaway bitcheries.

I'm old and a size16. I live at the back of beyond and have a very rural lifestyle. My city clothes tend to be things like Hobbs and Alice Temperley, Reiss and so on. But I want things that I can wear at home instead of the ubiquitous trousers/wool base layer and sweaters, North Face jackets etc. Practical, but after 2 years of lockdown, boring. I fancied some dresses, just for every day. I chose a very plain very dark blue Toast dress because I have a lot of very good silver jewellery and I thought it would set it off. That was my reasoning. And yes, middle class, although rural middle classes don't wear much Toast. Much Joules and Boden, which I find boring. Will probably send back now.

"I don't think plain and shapeless look ugly they just put the focus on the fabric and sometimes an abstract shape rather than the shape of the body and often draw focus to the wearers face, hair or accessories."

I sort of agree with this. But I also think that things that fit you well (or at least I find this) usually ARE more comfortable and move well with you. For example I have a pair of trouser very loose that were a bit of a "trendy" shape at the time. They are very loose and comfortable until you start going uphill and then they are just loose and tight in ALL the wrong places! There's a reason for standard human shapes I suppose. Whereas I have another pair of more fitted trousers that because they fit the shape of me very well - they are very comfortable moving about and going uphill and whatever. They move well. They are presumably cut and fitted with that in mind.

What I think is hard to find is stuff that fits all sorts of body types well. Or are cut well with different body shapes in mind. I find it hard to believe some of these so-called "don't care" clothes ARE that practical. because how do you fit voluminous sleeves with huge amounts of material under a jumper it's cold? Or how do you stop it sweating up awkwardly if you manage it? How do you stop a shapeless dress billowing over your head in the wind (yep this has happened - excrucriatingly - to me before ). Is a shapeless dress with the waist that's obviously in the wrong place and huge amounts of material attached in there and a super-high constricting neck really that comfortable for many of us?

Also - we are all shapes and sizes and most people do want to find something that suits them and looks nice on them and is also comfortable - basically something they feel good in. If you get something that really fits you well it is a revelation in how comfortable it can be in comparison to something that's just not quite right or awkward or that doesn't move well with you. Something loose and voluminous doesn't necessarily feel more comfortable than something that is really designed for your body shape. Something that gathers and pulls in all the wrong places isn't necessarily either. And voluminous can be a nightmare and difficult to wash as well.

I;m not critical of other people wearing anything they want. I suppose what brings these discussions about is that the fashions do tend to dictate what's out there and the styles of the moment dominate and it can be frustrating how little effort is taken to make clothes that work beautifully for different body tupes. I think a lot of these fashions are no more than fashions really - it's not really about people not caring about how they look. Because if people really didn't care why pay so much money for the privilege?

White, slightly baffled looking, with wispy shoulders.

@FangsForTheMemory

How the fuck can a garment be middle-class?

It needs to scream, "I'm the type of person with money that buys plain billowy dresses that last forever while you people with shop bought coffees and colourful tops live on the poverty line with your financial and aesthetic extravagance'.

The Biden thing makes me laugh every time. It conjures up such a funny image!

[quote tectonicplates]Here's some more info for those of you who really think you're "anti-fashion"

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2fgquYTCg[/quote]
Oh I loved that scene ! So true.

I think some of the reviled 'shapeless sack' clothes actually look better on 'real people' instead of the models who are generally rather taller and more slender than average.

To all those suggesting they didn’t know clothing has ‘classes’ isn’t it obvious that clothing companies deliberately target specific demographics? They spend a vast sum of money on market research and advertising to target their specific niche market, as this is a proven way to make more cash.

Any sizeable clothing firm will have detailed information on the typical characteristics of their customer base. This will include income, type of job, where they are most likely to be geographically based and what they spend their money and leisure on. They will know the other brands they are likely to buy too.

None of this is saying that absolutely everyone who buys from these brands fits the exact mould, nor everyone who fits their typical customer will buy from the brand. However, generally speaking, these research and marketing models will hold true. People do choose their clothes as a pack thing, however much they might like to think they are unique and choosing for themselves. In fact ‘orgiginal and unique’ clothing of course has its own particular demographic market.

We like to imagine we choose what we like, feee from influence of anything apart from innate taste..but this isn’t the case, we are all influenced by a variety of factors. Class or aspired to class is one of them and is a powerful influencer.

@FourTeaFallOut

It needs to scream, "I'm the type of person with money that buys plain billowy dresses that last forever while you people with shop bought coffees and colourful tops live on the poverty line with your financial and aesthetic extravagance

"trampy as fuck"?! Jeez.

@Bideshi don’t send it back! If you liked it and felt comfortable/good in it then you don’t need to give a single fuck whether or not it meets with approval from anyone else. Seriously. Keep it, lounge in it and enjoy it.

@Bluebluemoon

Yes, toast is hideous IMO. However so are many clothes that would be considered WC brands. I've not rtft so I'm sure many others will have made this point. I give you this "dress" from pretty little thing for example:

That creation is as much a dress as a thong is a pair of boxer shorts

@Watchingpeppa12

Yes!!! I feel the same about Lucy and yak jumpsuit things, perfect for a 3 year old girl, not a grown woman 😫

Ahahahaha... so I came on here to be like, yep, Toast (sackcloths) and Boden (so many florals, so many shirt dresses), hideous stuff. Really putting on my - fashionable - judgy pants.

And then I saw this and... yeah you got me there.

I fucking love my L&Ys, shapeless corduroy horrors that they undeniably are