To think so many middle-class clothes are ugly?

[RoyalFamilyFan]

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

I also often deliberately dress to subvert the tyranny of fashion

I have to laugh at all the people who think they're being subversive by being "anti-fashion". Toast and Cos are still fashion companies. They still go through a multi-stage design process, choosing colours, sampling, manufacturing, testing, modelling, identifying and targeting their target audience, and clearly very careful marketing to create their chosen vibe. It's still part of the fashion industry. You're about as subversive as teenage Goths who think they're all individuals until they start going to gigs and realising everyone's wearing the same band t-shirt. Toast and Cos sell thousands of clothes every year, all to people who want the same look as you. There's no such thing as anti-fashion. Everything is influenced by something.

@MmeD

Does anyone have any opinions on Cabbages and Roses?

www.cabbagesandroses.com

I have some of their bedding. Lovely fabric. Slightly slapdash stitching, in places.

I absolutely love Cabbages and Roses but I'm not thin enough to wear it. I think, like Toast, it relies on the person wearing it being reasonably slim, tall and put together to look good.

It bore a very strong resemblance to shalwar kameez, both longer dresses/top garments over trousers. How obtuse to pretend otherwise just because it isn't to your taste

It bore no resemblance at all to beautifully tailored shalwar kameez where the 2 parts are made of the same material or material which matched.

I'm neither pretending nor obtuse. A random dress worn over the world's most boring garment is not and does not look like a shalwar kameez.

It make might you feel better to know I once bought a dress from monsoon which I really liked. it was discussed on here - unflattering comparisons to Elmer the elephant. sadly, in my case mumsnet was right and I couldn't unsee myself as Elmer!
I'm sure your dress is lovely- don't be put off x

@NeverDropYourMooncup

I'm old and also a hardline feminist and I hate the idea of dressing for the male gaze as someone put it upthread. But there's something very puritanical about this thing of dressing to disguise or obscure what makes you attractive

It's the other side of misogyny that's unnerving you. The one where women must obscure their physicality lest a man who is not her husband has impure thoughts - she dresses like this 'out of respect for her husband and herself', to signal that she is not sexually available due to being the property of somebody else and immune to the temptation of attracting attention from others by wearing bright clothes or items that feel good against the body or when the body is touched through them. The mentality that asks of a woman who has been sexually assaulted 'what was she wearing?'.

That’s what fashion does though. Tells you what to think..

Put 50 different sized and shaped women in the same black string bikini in their size. It’s never the actual black bikini that’s the issue.

@KimikosNightmare I have worn shameer kamaz. I am laughing at the idea they are all beautifully tailored.

@FestiveFruitloop

I want to know what these Biden dresses look like...

White, slightly baffled looking, with wispy shoulders.

@Clarissa76

I absolutely love Cabbages and Roses but I'm not thin enough to wear it. I think, like Toast, it relies on the person wearing it being reasonably slim, tall and put together to look good.

They really don't. I don't have dresses from them but have many similar. I'm 5' 4 and a size 14 (on a good day)

@PickAChew

Slapdash stitching? At those prices?

Its more perplexity as to why some categories of middle aged women want to embrace looking like sacks.

In all seriousness, though - why do you care?

I do like the sack shape, yep. I don't care what anyone else wears, why does it bother you how I dress?

Maybe everyone should just wear whatever the hell they like, and maybe if another woman wears something you don’t like, just think about something else instead of making out that she has a psychological problem!

Not sure this is true either. I’vealways worn boyfriend jeans - literally men’s jeans, since they suit slim hipped apples. Also men’s chinos in the early 90’s ( although stopped that when chinos were tragic).

Bypassing the modesty dressing angle, I think Esprit is very underrated. I am 50 and think they fall nicely between Toast/Cos and Asda/Primark. Lots of natural fabrics and fitted but not bodycon stuff.

@RoyalFamilyFan

And ASDA has some nice clothes. I know most of you won't know that as you won't buy clothes there. But in amongst things I don't like, it has some lovely stuff.

But exactly the same can be said for the brands that you are slagging off. Not everything in these shops is awful. You are just picking things that aren't to your personal taste and saying look how awful this is.

All shops have good and bad clothes, and the ratio of good and bad depends on your personal taste. Not everybody likes the same thing.

Jesus Christ this thread has given me a good laugh 😂

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare I have worn shameer kamaz. I am laughing at the idea they are all beautifully tailored.[/quote]
They might not be but they always looked it.

I certainly laughed (secretly) at the jeans and dresses brigade. You're (general you) fooling yourself if you thought you were working a shalmar kameez vibe. I assume that's what you're referring to? Your post says shameer kamaz

Its more perplexity as to why some categories of middle aged women want to embrace looking like sacks

It’s only in your opinion that they look like sacks. Or don’t care what they look like. The only flesh I display these days is below the elbow, below the knee and my face. I love loose flowing dresses because they’re so comfortable, particularly in the summer. I don’t think I or the hundreds of other women who wear them look as if we’re wearing sacks. We do care what we look like - we have well cut hair, great make up, good bags and shoes - hell, some of us even paint our nails.

My body has never been my strong point so I don’t display it. On the other hand, I have tiny slender wrists and ankles so I show them off. I’ve dressed essentially the same way since I was in my late 20s because I know what suits me. Anyone who doesn’t like it doesn’t have to look at me.

Here's some more info for those of you who really think you're "anti-fashion"

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2fgquYTCg

@KimikosNightmare

It bore a very strong resemblance to shalwar kameez, both longer dresses/top garments over trousers. How obtuse to pretend otherwise just because it isn't to your taste

It bore no resemblance at all to beautifully tailored shalwar kameez where the 2 parts are made of the same material or material which matched.

I'm neither pretending nor obtuse. A random dress worn over the world's most boring garment is not and does not look like a shalwar kameez.

You never saw a shit shalwar kameez? They're like any other type of clothing. Some are crap.

You could ruin the dress over trousers look, of course you could. But done well, it was flattering on heavier hips and thighs and there was no reason you couldn't make it match if you wanted.

It's fine not to like it, but to pretend it's not a variant of, well, a long tunic or dress over trousers, or that all shalwar kameezes are wonderfully made...

I’m not sure about the middle class label, although I do know what you mean. I just think the clothes from those type of shops eg White Stuff, Seasalt, Toast, Joules, Boden etc are full of clothes for people with no interest in fashion/style whatsoever.

At best dowdy, at worst shapeless gulag chic.

www.cabbagesandroses.com/full-fairisle-stole-in-orange.html

Love this.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

The one where women must obscure their physicality lest a man who is not her husband has impure thoughts - she dresses like this 'out of respect for her husband and herself', to signal that she is not sexually available due to being the property of somebody else and immune to the temptation of attracting attention from others by wearing bright clothes or items that feel good against the body or when the body is touched through them. The mentality that asks of a woman who has been sexually assaulted 'what was she wearing?'.

When I wear loose/shapeless clothes, that is absolutely not the thought process that leads me there. If nothing else, these clothes are damn comfortable and practical - I have a Toast jumpsuit and not only is it incredibly comfortable but it has huge, practical pockets. I prefer muted colours because I think they look softer, nicer, suit my colouring and work better with other colours in a similar palette when I layer things. I wear what feels and looks good to me; it's not the Western equivalent of a burqa.

The post at the top is possibly one of the worst quotes along with one or two going the other way and berating women for not dressing sexily or showing off their bodies.

Their knitwear is great but the winsome dresses are oversized Laura Ashley

How the fuck can a garment be middle-class?