Childminder being unfair?

[Grace2016]

Hi all,

Would be interested to hear peoples opinions on this. We had a crèche place for my son when I was due to return from maternity leave but when covid hit they reduced the numbers down and we lost his place. A family member offered to mind our son, paid of course so we were of course delighted as I could go back to work. I’d taken all the additional leave I could so it was a relief at the time. I make all meals and do school pick up for our daughter most days. I also altered my hours to allow her to start later in the morning at 9:30 and finish at 4. She wasn’t available Mondays so I took parental leave for that day. We paid her full pay for months when my husbands hours were cut to 3 hours a day due to covid, she never asked if we needed anything and left everyday after 3 hours even though we had to homeschool my older daughter too and I was working. It was a nightmare. We pay her full pay for her holidays, our holidays and sick pay. We paid her almost 3 weeks up front at Xmas time as I took some time off and again she never asked if we needed even an hour for Xmas shopping during that time. My husband thinks she is taking advantage and wants to stop paying her if she is unavailable, if we take holidays etc. we would pay her. Do you think this is fair? I’m starting to agree, I think we have been more than fair but don’t feel we are getting the same back from her!

Just look around for someone else, it’s not working out anymore.
When you find someone else, just say the hours suited your family better and thank them and move on. Good luck.

So you cut her hours back to 3 daily but were hoping she'd offer to stay back and help?

You gave her holidays over Xmas but were hoping she'd offer you some shopping time?

How about you just ask for, and pay for, the childcare you need and stop waiting for her to offer it up and getting poopy when she doesn't read your mind?!

Need to get a proper contract in place definitely, thanks everyone 😊

During covid she asked to drop the kids home after the 3 hours but still got full pay. We expected her to keep my youngest a bit longer to allow us to homeschool but that didn’t happen. We thought in good faith she would help more during that time but she didn’t.

Did you ask her to keep your youngest for longer? Did you ask her for the help during covid that you wanted but didn't get?

If you clearly asked, set out your expectations and told her when she wasn't meeting them then YANBU and it's past time to find someone else.

If not then I think YABVU in your judgement and treatment of her. Clear communication is key to good relationships with service providers - especially when they are family. "Not liking conflict" is not a good excuse for poor communication.

Hi , when I was childminding ( left last year) I did not charge for any of the days I did not work due to sickness holiday etc. if child sick or on holiday they paid full fees. If a client was paying for 7 hours a day and they decided to collect early there was no re fund for unused hours and they could not be banked to use at a later time. I would offer refund on the unused hours if I had to suddenly close. I required 4 weeks notice if they wished to change their hours but would try to help out where I could for additional hours a family may needed suddenly while staying within government guidelines . Your childminder is taking the mick. I would start looking for an alternative provider and give notice I would never of got the clients with this fee structure . The first questions always were how much to do you charge? What for ? And do you change for your holidays.?

The leaving after 3 hours sounds really strange, is it because she had your two children when your daughter was off school in lockdown?

And you pay her in full for picking up your daughter but do it yourself, then she says no when you ask

None of this adds up at all.

What do you pay her per hour, seen as she only caters to your two children and needs to make a living for a short 6 hours per day.

Why won’t you answer exactly what the hourly rate is, instead of ‘higher end childminder’ as I’m sure it wouldn’t be much at all.

Some childminder charge their holidays, some charge half, some don’t charge.

When I childminded I charged when I was available, no charge if I wasn't. Parents could use full hours regardless of if working or not, they had paid for them! Food activities and outings were included too. If registered childminder she should have contracts for you to clarify. It's not easy working with friends/family, it sounds like she is taking advantage.

It's hard to think anyone could be so clueless as this: I think we need to draw up a contract or for future

Well, of course you have a contract where you set out expectations and responsibilities.

You also make it clear what you are paying her for, and the situation regarding holidays

left everyday after 3 hour
Where did she leave, if she was minding them in her own home?

I think you've changed the story to suit the replies you've got about nanny / childminder.

It seems like she actually has been minding them in your home. The description of going back to childminding after losing her job doesn't sound likely at all

We thought in good faith she would help more during that time but she didn’t.

But it doesn't work like that. You specify the responsibilities and that's what she's paid for. No good faith needed

It's clear this is a close relative - your mum? Sister? - that you've an ad hoc, unofficial arrangement with, instead of formalising it appropriately.

Time to find a new minder, properly this time.

As a registered childminder I have a legal contract with the parents which includes four weeks notice for changes or to end.
As self employed I don't charge for anytime my service is unavailable, holidays or illness. If I am 'open' then fees apply as per contract, so if parents take a holiday or the child is sick they still pay.
This is the usual way for most childminder in my area.
I feel you need to get a contract in place or seeing as you don't have one are free to leave and find alternative childcare immediately. She is taking the micky.

It’s all very confused.
I’d love to know how long you paid her for 6.5 hours whilst worked for 3 though.
And how you could afford to!

How have you spent several months paying a family member a full day's wage for doing 3 hours work?

What hold has s/he got over you that you have meekly complied with this?

The norm:

You & childminder agree days & hours your child will attend. Let's say DC2 does 5 days 8-5.30 and she collects DC1 from school at 3.30 and keeps them until 5.30. 99% of the time you would drop & collect kids.

As the parent you can drop late or collect early and still pay full pay. The standard would the agreed hours, and the CM should be available for all those.

If the CM is not available e.g. sick, hospital appointment etc and doesn't have a registered back up then you normally wouldn't pay.

When you don't use the agreed service - sickness, holidays, day off etc then you would pay in full.

Some CMs advise they'll take X number of weeks holiday with half paid at 50% and half unpaid.

Our childminder told us terms and we agreed to them and had a contract stating everything.
She worked term time, and had a week off at Christmas and a week elsewhere both of these weeks would be half price and plenty of notice. We still paid when we didn't need her (our holidays or sick child) and we didn't have to pay if she was sick (she was extremely reliable so I did just pay the usual amount when she had very occasional sick day).
Days, times and pick up places were set and rarely changed.

I wouldn't expect her to do more than her agreed hours due to home school nor would I have expected her to do less.

To answer your question, we’ve had a couple of CM’s each with slightly different terms.

We didn’t pay any if they were sick & unavailable.

Holidays have varied, one we didn’t pay her for any of her holidays and we could have up to two weeks at 50% as long as correct notice was given. Another we paid 50% for both ours and her holidays. My latest as it’s only before school now and she’s over 8, she doesn’t charge me for either hers or our holidays as were not taking up another place.

I don't understand why you would have paid her for a full day when she was demanding to bring children back after 3 hours. I really just don't understand how that was happening. Anyway, get someone else or get a contract. When she chooses not to work, apart from illness or her agreed holiday time, do not pay her.

Time to get a new childminder.

@orangeblosssom

Time to get a new childminder.

You mean time to get a proper ofsted registered childminder.

I have found it more normal to pay when a childminder is open and providing a service. In my experience if a childminder closes for holidays or sickness you don’t pay, however if you chose not to send child or child is sick or you take holidays then full payment is made.
However every childminder has their own way of operating, but it will be very clear in a contract and in their policies what the situation is regarding payment. If she only looks after your children she should really be available during the hours you pay her for to collect in an emergency unless you have been clear she is not needed that day in which case she may have made other plans. But to be honest as a one off I’d hope she would help you out even just as family, never mind the fact your paying her.
It sounds to me like you need to formalise the arrangement, tell what works for you and see if she can meet that. If you like the way she is with the children it’s worth trying to work it out. You could tell her that you are looking into voucher payment through work ( or something) and need it to be a formal CM contract so you’d like to move onto that footing. Or that you are clearer on what you need now so want to formalise it for her insurance purposes.

I believe if you are using her as an actual Childminder legally under ofsted regulations she has to issue you a contract to be insured

I think OP is getting a bit of a hard time here.

The way I am reading it is, we were all plunged into a really weird situation during COVID, when we all presumed the situation was short term / temporary and this seemed like a win win situation, as you had a relative who lost her job, who had previous experience at Childminding, and it suited her to have some work and suited you to have some childcare. You all knew and trusted each other and all seemed ideal for the few weeks we all thought it was going to last.

However now time has moved on, it has all become awkward as expectations are different.
So, now you need to decide what you want to do going forwards. Either she re-registers and you set up a proper formal contract
or
you carry on in this muddle and all get to resent each other more and more
or
you find someone else - be that a nanny, be that a childminder, or be that a Nursery and wrap around school care.

You need to do a bit of research in your area (google 'Children's Information and Advice Service' or 'Family Information Service' with the name of the area you live) or even ask on your local facebook group for recommendations.
Childminders are self employed so up to them to set their terms and conditions but it is usual for parents to pay for the hours they need and suck it up if they don't then use all those hours. Parents don't usually pay if the childminder is unavailable (through sickness / holiday / appointment). They work in their own home.
Nanny works in your home - can be self employed but I think is more usually employed by the parents, which makes you responsible for things like tax and NI and sick pay or maternity leave etc.
Nursery - you book the times you want IF thy have them available. Some Nurseries let you have the hours you want but many offer 'sessions' of 'blocks of time' (so 8am-1pm or 1pm - 6pm, even if you only need them until 4pm for example - again, they are individual businesses so you would have to look at what each one offers.

Whatever you decide, you do need to get this on a more formal footing now.