New recruit pregnant before job starting

[FlimFlamJimJams]

I've started a new business, it'll open to the public around April time.
It's a very small, community focused business with only 4 staff members initially.
I recruited all the staff within the last few weeks and are finalising contracts. Everyone has formal job offers, no one yet has a job contract.

The roles require training on the job resulting in a nationally recognised qualification, probably achieved within 12 months or so. The business is paying for this.

I have had meetings with everyone individually this week to go through bits and bobs, start dates etc - and at the end of a meeting with one lady yesterday, she tells me that she's 12 weeks pregnant and anticipates starting her Maternity leave around mid-July. She said she found out at 5 weeks - so she'd have known she was pregnant at interview.

I'm now stuck in a difficult position - the business is already going to struggle financially for the first few years (it's not quite a non-profit, but it's close) and I'm now facing having to extend someone's training at least 6 months past everyone else's as well as find temporary cover, which is expensive. She may well choose not to return after her maternity. I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

I guess there isn't a AIBU, because I'm not going to do anything, but I feel really deceived and a bit stressed about the whole thing.
I know everyone is entitled to get pregnant etc. But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

It’s probably already been said but look for the thread in legal where this happens and the lady takes them to court (rightly IMO)

Yes, this and similar have been said countless times, and all by PPs who seem not to have read the thread; had they done so they'd have seen that where OP lives there's no legal bar to refusing this lady the job

Whether it's the right thing to do is something else, but then the same applies to those who routinely avoid employing women of childbearing age, and that happens all the time

I'd expect that we all want to protect womens' workplace rights, but there has to be balance and sometimes it's wise to be careful what you wish for

@PGSTesting123

If you can legally withdraw and want to, then do it. I'm not saying this is right but if it is right for your business then do it. Also, paying 3 times more than the going rate! There's a reason why they have the rates they do. Your bottom line is already affected. Which country is it?

This. You feel deceived and that she was immoral to hide her pregnancy when interviewing, knowing that you would be unlikely to hire her in those circs. Therefore, would it really be immoral to withdraw the offer before she even starts?

You already know it’s not illegal…

@BurbageBrook

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes.

This 100%. You have no idea what this woman has gone through, how many children she may already have or how many she may have in future. Yes the owner needs to protect her business but legally retracting the offer after being told she's pregnant would be discrimination.

I've actually been in a very similar position but in reverse, when 5-6 weeks pregnant I applied internally for a promotion I'd been wanting for years. I had no idea if the pregnancy or job application would be successful after trying to get pregnant for a long time. I told them after my second interview and was petrified they'd not offer me the job if I told them I was pregnant, or that they'd have some unconscious bias against me if they knew during the interview process. Miraculously both the pregnancy and job application were successful and my employer (all my management are male) was over the moon for me. Different because I was already employed there, but a promotion and inconvenience nonetheless. Yes it's hard as a small business but there is support from the government as others have said and you cannot retract an offer purely based on her maternity status, morally or legally!!! Delaying training courses until she's back full time sounds sensible if that could work in the role and I think it would be an understandable compromise, she may even be grateful to have one less thing to worry about when dealing with pregnancy! Sounds like legal advice may be needed to find a suitable path forward.

Honestly, the opinions on here that are promoting discrimination against women of childbearing age are absolutely disgusting and people should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe as women we are our own worst enemies after all?!

I think this problem high-lights some errors you've made in calculating your outgoings for the next couple of years.

You should have calculated for this necessary training to take twice as long, and for employees to drop out/quit/have accidents.

Instead.. you've decided to pay them 3 x the going rate.. leaving you no fall back to cover such issues as you are now experiencing...

Recalcuate your numbers - then decide if she can actually do the job if she defers training until after mat. leave. Put that to her and see what she decides to do, if she can't do the full training now, and can't do the work without the training, I do not see how she can do the job now?

@LethargicActress

It’s shitty when people do this, especially when they knowingly do it to small businesses. You have my sympathy OP. Is there any chance you could find another job for her and give someone else the job that comes with the training and qualification?

“People”? You mean women?! So pregnant women don’t have the right to seek employment? Or they have an obligation to disclose at interview and risk discrimination?

The misogyny of this thread.....

Who would do that ?
That’s shocking.

If she doesn’t return after maternity leave, doesn’t she have to pay back everything apart from the stat? Or am I imagining things?!

There’s no ‘baddie’ here, this woman is within her rights to seek employment & OP is right to be pissed off about it. OP doesn’t owe this woman anything other than fair treatment, she’s allowed to prioritise her own business over another woman’s pregnancy.

@WiddlinDiddlin

I think this problem high-lights some errors you've made in calculating your outgoings for the next couple of years.

You should have calculated for this necessary training to take twice as long, and for employees to drop out/quit/have accidents.

Instead.. you've decided to pay them 3 x the going rate.. leaving you no fall back to cover such issues as you are now experiencing...

Recalcuate your numbers - then decide if she can actually do the job if she defers training until after mat. leave. Put that to her and see what she decides to do, if she can't do the full training now, and can't do the work without the training, I do not see how she can do the job now?

All of this.

Because realistically, you should always have a plan for multiple people in your team going on maternity leave - just in case.

[quote Abigail12345654321]@ShirleyPhallus
It isn’t illegal. No contract has been signed. The offer can be withdrawn because the Op decides she fancies employing a flying unicorn instead, or just because she changed her mind. That is perfectly legal. Or because she now knows this employee will cost her a lot of money.

If she thinks the prospective employee told her because she was doing the decent thing (as opposed to being stupid!) then she may choose to employ her anyway and discuss when training might be viable.

But there is no signed contract so there is no legal issue. Withdrawing the offer after contract signing would be illegal in the uk. But not before.[/quote]
There's some shocking legal advice here. This is particularly bad. A verbal contract IS a contract.

I'd have already withdrawn the offer without starting this thread, OP.

It's bloody hard getting a new business off the ground, and especially so when employees require extensive, costly training before they'll contribute to revenue.

It's not in the least bit misogynistic or discriminatory to understand that your business will be fucked before it launches if you take this woman on.

If you can tighten your belt and make a few manageable adjustments, employ her as planned because it's the right thing to do.

If you genuinely believe that this will kill your business before its properly off the ground, retract the offer. The most important thing is protecting the business. No one benefits, including this employee, if the business fails.

Obviously, if you can legally do so in the country you're trading in.

As the op isnt in the uk id say withdraw the offer-just say you can cover training for longer than everyone else so on this basis she wont be offered the job

I think you would be best off seaking legal advice to see what options are open to you. I do sympathise though because it must be tough starting up a new business, especially in the current climate.

Isn’t it remarkable haw many times this appears to happen, and yet I’ve only ever read about it on Mumsnet.

@SofiaMichElf

I'd have already withdrawn the offer without starting this thread, OP.

It's bloody hard getting a new business off the ground, and especially so when employees require extensive, costly training before they'll contribute to revenue.

It's not in the least bit misogynistic or discriminatory to understand that your business will be fucked before it launches if you take this woman on.

And it puts everyone else’s jobs on the line if it means the business ends up struggling.

Just catching up - just to clarify that she was interviewed 2 weeks ago, and she's now 12 weeks pregnant.
She told me she found out at 5 weeks. So she had known she was pregnant for at least a month prior to interview.

It doesn't really change anything, but a few people are latching on to the 5 week thing - she wasn't 5 weeks at interview, she was 10 weeks. She found out at 5 weeks.

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes.

So if this was a man who knew he wouldn’t be able to do the job for the few months for medical reasons but he didn’t say at the interview or as soon as he found out, would you not think he was being unreasonable and wasting OPs time and money?

Could you offer her a start date after the baby born and maternity finished .

Another thing (though it really isn't relevant, which is why I didn't put it in the OP) I'd be very surprised if she had been trying for years to get pregnant, as she's 18. But really that's none of my business, I'm just trying to figure out how to mitigate the risks.

I had taken into consideration Mat Leave and Sick Leave, but not really within the first pivotal 6 months.
Sick leave is unavoidable and is very different to taking Mat Leave just a few months into the job.

@WonderfulYou

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes.

So if this was a man who knew he wouldn’t be able to do the job for the few months for medical reasons but he didn’t say at the interview or as soon as he found out, would you not think he was being unreasonable and wasting OPs time and money?

I absolutely would not think that.

Everyone is entitled to a life outside work. That includes having babies and medical problems, yes.

@lunar1

Is there a way she can keep up with the training requirements while on maternity? How long is a typical leave in The country where you are?

She knew the commitment for completion of the training so maybe she doesn't intend to take long.

Typically leave is 3 months, but I believe she will take 6 months minimum.

Can she and does she want to continue the training on maternity leave? (Not sure if you can ask this on the country where you are?) I was very upfront with my work when I had dc. Advised them I could do all CPD requirements after 8 weeks. Told them it’s fine to call me about x, y, z. She may be very keen to keep up with the others so she doesn’t return as the junior.

Withdraw the offer. It's not ok. I actually think women like her are hurting the rest of us and the reason small businesses are afraid to hire women of child bearing age. She has the right to have as many kids as she wants. But to take a job, knowing she won't finish qualifications and taking mat leave within a few months of starting is a pretty shit attitude.

@me4real

Absolutely shitty of her to do this. She shouldve informed you before taking the offer.

@UnshakenNeedsStirring If she'd done that she'd not have got a job/probably many firms would've turned her down.

I have a mental health disability and I could never mention it in an interview or I'd be likely to never get a job (except maybe if it was the council fulfilling a quota maybe.) The same goes for this. So it'dve been daft of her to have mention it.

You are being disingenuous then. Deliberately withholding information.

Thank you to everyone who made constructive comments.
I'm going to go away and evaluate how I can make this work.

For many reasons, I don't want to retract the job offer - I don't really think it's morally correct.
As much as it makes me a misogynistic psychopathic capitalist (or whatever those comments were) - I wouldn't have made a job offer in this instance to someone who was going to take 6 months off, 4 months into the job - regardless of the reason.
Not because I hate women, or that I'm a money-grabbing loon - but because this is going to put 3 other jobs at risk as well as my own.

However, this is the hand I've been dealt and I will make it work.

Some very insightful suggestions, thank you for the ideas - I'm sure in the long run I'll see it through. It's a stressful time right now, and the support helps