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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New recruit pregnant before job starting

536 replies

FlimFlamJimJams · 04/01/2022 16:24

I've started a new business, it'll open to the public around April time.
It's a very small, community focused business with only 4 staff members initially.
I recruited all the staff within the last few weeks and are finalising contracts. Everyone has formal job offers, no one yet has a job contract.

The roles require training on the job resulting in a nationally recognised qualification, probably achieved within 12 months or so. The business is paying for this.

I have had meetings with everyone individually this week to go through bits and bobs, start dates etc - and at the end of a meeting with one lady yesterday, she tells me that she's 12 weeks pregnant and anticipates starting her Maternity leave around mid-July. She said she found out at 5 weeks - so she'd have known she was pregnant at interview.

I'm now stuck in a difficult position - the business is already going to struggle financially for the first few years (it's not quite a non-profit, but it's close) and I'm now facing having to extend someone's training at least 6 months past everyone else's as well as find temporary cover, which is expensive. She may well choose not to return after her maternity. I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

I guess there isn't a AIBU, because I'm not going to do anything, but I feel really deceived and a bit stressed about the whole thing.
I know everyone is entitled to get pregnant etc. But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

OP posts:
Abigail12345654321 · 04/01/2022 20:13

@OverTheRubicon
Depends what has been said. Before contract signing we always refer to people as ‘preferred candidates’ and say subject to T&Cs being acceptable, references and so on, there is an offer.

Also this isn’t in the UK. So UK law does not apply.

notanothertakeaway · 04/01/2022 20:13

Agree with @Lweji that shared parental leave would help reduce the prejudices against pregnant women, as employers would also have to cope with men taking time off

This thread is pretty depressing. I acknowledge this situation causes problems for OP, but isn't that just part of running a business?

People saying the woman shouldn't be hired, do you have daughters? And if so, how would you want them to be treated in the workplace?

Abigail12345654321 · 04/01/2022 20:15

@BoredZelda

Isn’t it remarkable haw many times this appears to happen, and yet I’ve only ever read about it on Mumsnet.
It’s happened to me. Irritating in my case, but no more - but then, I wasn’t trying to get a startup going.
WorstXmasEver · 04/01/2022 20:16

I'd retract the job offer. She's taking the Michael.

Bagamoyo1 · 04/01/2022 20:18

[quote FlimFlamJimJams]@RoomOfRequirement

The Maternity pay isn't really the issue - it's the training.
To do the job, everyone must do the training. I specifically employed on that basis and it was made very clear in the advert and at interview that everyone would need to get qualified within 12-14 months.

By going on ML, she will be missing at least 6 months of training meaning that I'm going to have to extend the contract with the supplier just for her. It's at least £1000 a month plus assessor fees etc. So one staff member doing it separately to the rest is going to cost a fortune, not to mention the logistics of not having everyone qualify at the same time.[/quote]
I’d withdraw the job offer, given that you’re allowed to where you are.
She knew this wasn’t just a standard job. She knew it began with a block of training. And she’s done someone else out of a job that she herself won’t want in a few months anyway. And she’d be incurring additional costs for you by extending the training.

Bagamoyo1 · 04/01/2022 20:19

@FlimFlamJimJams

Thank you to everyone who made constructive comments. I'm going to go away and evaluate how I can make this work.

For many reasons, I don't want to retract the job offer - I don't really think it's morally correct.
As much as it makes me a misogynistic psychopathic capitalist (or whatever those comments were) - I wouldn't have made a job offer in this instance to someone who was going to take 6 months off, 4 months into the job - regardless of the reason.
Not because I hate women, or that I'm a money-grabbing loon - but because this is going to put 3 other jobs at risk as well as my own.

However, this is the hand I've been dealt and I will make it work.

Some very insightful suggestions, thank you for the ideas - I'm sure in the long run I'll see it through. It's a stressful time right now, and the support helps Smile

So you’re going to risk the business failing just for one person? Bizarre.
Abigail12345654321 · 04/01/2022 20:20

@notanothertakeaway

Agree with *@Lweji* that shared parental leave would help reduce the prejudices against pregnant women, as employers would also have to cope with men taking time off

This thread is pretty depressing. I acknowledge this situation causes problems for OP, but isn't that just part of running a business?

People saying the woman shouldn't be hired, do you have daughters? And if so, how would you want them to be treated in the workplace?

Startup companies commonly fail. Anyone electing to join a startup generally understands the salaries need to be higher than average to get you in the door and that you need to be very committed - it’s a startup! It beggars belief that anyone would apply for that and then announce they can’t work for half the first year - for any reason.
BoodleBug51 · 04/01/2022 20:31

DH and I run a small business, and having anyone go off onto extended leave for whatever reason is an absolute ballache. You're stuck paying NI, pension contributions and holiday pay and cover isn't always an option especially in a niche sector like ours.

To interview knowing that you were going to cause disruption? Unforgivable, frankly, and I would retract the offer for that reason alone. Lying by omission is still lying, and would make me question someone's moral code.

girlmom21 · 04/01/2022 20:35

@FlimFlamJimJams

Just catching up - just to clarify that she was interviewed 2 weeks ago, and she's now 12 weeks pregnant. She told me she found out at 5 weeks. So she had known she was pregnant for at least a month prior to interview.

It doesn't really change anything, but a few people are latching on to the 5 week thing - she wasn't 5 weeks at interview, she was 10 weeks. She found out at 5 weeks.

But you openly said you wouldn't have given her the job if you'd known so she did the right thing for her.
bcc89 · 04/01/2022 20:36

@BoodleBug51

DH and I run a small business, and having anyone go off onto extended leave for whatever reason is an absolute ballache. You're stuck paying NI, pension contributions and holiday pay and cover isn't always an option especially in a niche sector like ours.

To interview knowing that you were going to cause disruption? Unforgivable, frankly, and I would retract the offer for that reason alone. Lying by omission is still lying, and would make me question someone's moral code.

So they should be honest, so you can reject them anyway? Grin I am so glad I don't have to work for your business that can't handle the ins and outs of.. actually employing people and being a business.

I'd be such a ballache for you anyway. I sometimes need extended periods of time off for my disability. Wouldn't want to disrupt your precious business! :)

Drunkpanda · 04/01/2022 20:40

She didn't lie.

RachAnneKirl90 · 04/01/2022 20:40

This is why so many businesses don't want to employ women of child-bearing age. It is never discussed openly, but that's why - because people take the piss.

Bagamoyo1 · 04/01/2022 20:40

It sounds to me as if she just wanted to grab a job, any job, before it was too late. Your job fitted the bill because you pay higher than average. She doesn’t sound invested in the success of the business, because she’s shafting you before she’s even started.

If I was starting a business I’d want committed enthusiastic people from the outset. Not someone who knows they’re going to cost you thousands.

Drunkpanda · 04/01/2022 20:41

She could have the baby and work for the company for 20 years.
A man could be employed and take shared parental leave - you wouldn't even know there was a baby in the offing.

Millionairesshortbreadshort · 04/01/2022 20:44

BurbageBrook

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes

Agree. Shocking. Before 11 weeks a pregnancy is very risky and many women don’t want to tell even their nearest and dearest. It’s very personal. That’s without any of the issues around equality. Can’t believe someone sued a pregnant woman!! Awful.

Bagamoyo1 · 04/01/2022 20:44

@Drunkpanda

She didn't lie.
Of course she didn’t lie - she didn’t have the opportunity to! No one ever gets asked in an interview “are you pregnant”!! But she withheld crucial information which could end up breaking the business that she is claiming she wants to join.
RantyAunty · 04/01/2022 20:44

It was unfair of her to go for the job at your very small business knowing she'd be taking maternity leave soon.

She could have applied to larger businesses.

Is there any type of government assistance you can get to make up for the extra costs to you?

Frazzled2207 · 04/01/2022 20:47

I’m a small business owner and can see how difficult this can be even though I don’t think the prospective employee did anything wrong. In the past I’ve invested so much into new staff who then just quit. It costs (me!) so much and is as expensive in energy as it is in £s.

If the others are women presumably there is a chance at least one other will fall
Pregnant during training? I’m
Not sure how you can guarantee that all
Of them can compete their training together. Of course that is logistically easier but they any of them could decide they just don’t like it.

What I’m saying is I think you need a plan in place to get people trained up at different times as getting a bunch of people all trained together over a long but fixed timescale was always going to be a longshot.

CheshireKitten123 · 04/01/2022 20:51

An applicant is under no obligation to mention their pregnancy at interview.

I would take advice from a solicitor who specialises in employment law.

The last thing you want is being sued for discrimination.

justustwoandmoo · 04/01/2022 20:58

She wouldn't qualify for maternity pay though would she? Extract from UK Gov website:

Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP)
To qualify for SMP you must:
• earn on average at least £120 a week
• give the correct notice and proof you’re pregnantt_
• have worked for your employer continuouslyy_ for at least 26 weeks continuing into the ‘qualifying week’ - the 15th week before the expected week of childbirth

Only brining this up as I have come across it before so it might be wrong. OP I would definitely look into this before making any decisions x

ShirleyPhallus · 04/01/2022 21:01

@BoodleBug51

DH and I run a small business, and having anyone go off onto extended leave for whatever reason is an absolute ballache. You're stuck paying NI, pension contributions and holiday pay and cover isn't always an option especially in a niche sector like ours.

To interview knowing that you were going to cause disruption? Unforgivable, frankly, and I would retract the offer for that reason alone. Lying by omission is still lying, and would make me question someone's moral code.

Please could you let us know the company you own, so that those of us with morals can make a note to avoid ever using you or doing business with you?
Abigail12345654321 · 04/01/2022 21:01

@justustwoandmoo

She wouldn't qualify for maternity pay though would she? Extract from UK Gov website:

Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP)
To qualify for SMP you must:
• earn on average at least £120 a week
• give the correct notice and proof you’re pregnantt_
• have worked for your employer continuouslyy_ for at least 26 weeks continuing into the ‘qualifying week’ - the 15th week before the expected week of childbirth

Only brining this up as I have come across it before so it might be wrong. OP I would definitely look into this before making any decisions x

They aren’t in the UK!
justustwoandmoo · 04/01/2022 21:12

I know but OP said she was following UK law....

justustwoandmoo · 04/01/2022 21:15

@justustwoandmoo

I know but OP said she was following UK law....
Sorry my post looks random. Was in response to comment by @Abigail12345654321 xx
TractorAndHeadphones · 04/01/2022 21:38

@notanothertakeaway

Agree with *@Lweji* that shared parental leave would help reduce the prejudices against pregnant women, as employers would also have to cope with men taking time off

This thread is pretty depressing. I acknowledge this situation causes problems for OP, but isn't that just part of running a business?

People saying the woman shouldn't be hired, do you have daughters? And if so, how would you want them to be treated in the workplace?

I wouldn't take a job at a startup/small business when pregnant and strongly caution any daughter of mine against it. Because if said business fails they will be pregnant AND out of a job anyway!

Furthermore:
3/10 people away at the same time is 30% of a small company.
30/1000 people away is only 3% of a large company, which is why they can afford all of this stuff.

Do you think even a larger company can survive with 30% of their staff all away at the same time? Even planning for 25% of staff away with Covid is a huge disruption.

Hiring temps is one thing, but businesses don't plan for such a large number of people away simultaneously. It's nothing to do with human rights or resiliency the simple fact is smaller numbers of people away is a larger percentage of the staff of a small business. And again it's one of those things where very few people can do it. An individual doing it - maybe fine. But if half the people hired turned out to be pregnant - what then?

For a larger company again things won't fall apart, it will cost the company money but not really revenue especially as it's easier to find temps.
However a new company relies directly on people generating revenue. An absence not only costs money in this case but will also result in lost revenue.
Disingenuous to claim that it's 'business vs employee' when it's very much not in the pregnant woman's interest to have said business fold anyway.