New recruit pregnant before job starting

[FlimFlamJimJams]

I've started a new business, it'll open to the public around April time.
It's a very small, community focused business with only 4 staff members initially.
I recruited all the staff within the last few weeks and are finalising contracts. Everyone has formal job offers, no one yet has a job contract.

The roles require training on the job resulting in a nationally recognised qualification, probably achieved within 12 months or so. The business is paying for this.

I have had meetings with everyone individually this week to go through bits and bobs, start dates etc - and at the end of a meeting with one lady yesterday, she tells me that she's 12 weeks pregnant and anticipates starting her Maternity leave around mid-July. She said she found out at 5 weeks - so she'd have known she was pregnant at interview.

I'm now stuck in a difficult position - the business is already going to struggle financially for the first few years (it's not quite a non-profit, but it's close) and I'm now facing having to extend someone's training at least 6 months past everyone else's as well as find temporary cover, which is expensive. She may well choose not to return after her maternity. I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

I guess there isn't a AIBU, because I'm not going to do anything, but I feel really deceived and a bit stressed about the whole thing.
I know everyone is entitled to get pregnant etc. But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

@TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet

It’s not a punishment. It’s a consequence.

As soon as there are three to train (or however many make it financially viable), the next training will happen.

@LittleRoundRobin

I haven't RTFT, but I am sure some people have had a go at you and said this woman has the right to the job, even though she was KNOWINGLY pregnant.

I think it's a terrible thing to do to an employer personally. Very underhand and sneaky. KNOWING you're pregnant and not telling the employer...

This.

I am sorry to say. it is very bad form and makes it harder for other women of childbearing age.

@TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet

No *@Abigail12345654321 but it‘d a reply to @Haffiana* who said British “niceties” run the risk of running the business into the ground, and so I hope that person didn’t or doesn’t feel entitled to the British fairness of maternity laws.

If they live in Britain, why wouldn’t they? The Ops prospective employee doesn’t live in Britain.

@Lweji

OP, my actual advice to you is to negotiate maternity leave with her. Even if you follow UK rules, she could take as little as 2 weeks. That's not very realistic, but you could negotiate fewer months of maternity leave (say, 3-4) and then extend her annual leave when the training is done, for example. Or arrange for her to return PT, for example, in a way that she could put in the training hours, but wouldn't put so much pressure on the business. Again, this is something that can happen with any other female employee, and other issues withe male, and you will need to find solutions.

Good luck with negotiating maternity leave with her.

People who go on maternity leave will do exactly as they wish according to their own personal circumstances. Of course they would. If they don't disclose their condition during the interview, why should they care what happens after they get the job?

Is there a way she can keep up with the training requirements while on maternity? How long is a typical leave in The country where you are?

She knew the commitment for completion of the training so maybe she doesn't intend to take long.

@ShirleyPhallus
It isn’t illegal. No contract has been signed. The offer can be withdrawn because the Op decides she fancies employing a flying unicorn instead, or just because she changed her mind. That is perfectly legal. Or because she now knows this employee will cost her a lot of money.

If she thinks the prospective employee told her because she was doing the decent thing (as opposed to being stupid!) then she may choose to employ her anyway and discuss when training might be viable.

But there is no signed contract so there is no legal issue. Withdrawing the offer after contract signing would be illegal in the uk. But not before.

@mummyh2016

And put a clause in future contracts that if anyone leaves before the training has been completed (or within 6 months of completing it) they have to cover the costs, this is what my employer does. Obviously it won't cover maternity leave but it would mean they would come back after ML unless they wanted to cover the costs.

Thats what I was thinking - I've known people have this and it's reasonable - HOWEVER if the contract was signed without it in I'm not sure whether it would be able to be added in retrospect

And make sure it is in ALL contracts, not just hers

@Viviennemary

You need to toughen up if you want to run a profitable business. There is no room for emotion. Make a business decision and do whats right for the business.

Yes OP learn how to exploit other people correctly how else are you going to make your fortune off the sweat of others if you cant exploit them correctly, capitalism 101

@JustAnotherPoster00

That’s the spirit!! Well done!

If the business doesn’t survive there will be no employees. So first, protect the business. You can’t provide employment if you don’t exist.

@Porcupineintherough business never pay for may leave anyway. Even if she was entitled to SMP paid through her employer.

A small business this size could claim back 100% and even for larger businesses it’s 92%

Many women don’t want to tell anyone they are pregnant until after the 11 week scan. The right thing to do is to support her to do the training, value her so that she wants to come back after maternity leave. I appreciate your business might struggle but the reason pregnancy shouldn’t make a difference to things like this is to address the massive inequalities there are for women. It’s fine what she had done. Completely within her rights and I’d have done the same. Sorry.

[quote Abigail12345654321]@ShirleyPhallus
It isn’t illegal. No contract has been signed. The offer can be withdrawn because the Op decides she fancies employing a flying unicorn instead, or just because she changed her mind. That is perfectly legal. Or because she now knows this employee will cost her a lot of money.

If she thinks the prospective employee told her because she was doing the decent thing (as opposed to being stupid!) then she may choose to employ her anyway and discuss when training might be viable.

But there is no signed contract so there is no legal issue. Withdrawing the offer after contract signing would be illegal in the uk. But not before.[/quote]
Incorrect, that’s still maternity discrimination which is illegal in the UK

Your ad was clear and so she has been dishonest from the very start. I wouldn't want her in my company.

Maryjane3227

‘I work with someone who had had 3 pregnancies/babies in the last 5 years. The impact on my work place's finance and other staff is immense. This person is now pregnant again. She never fully commits, sees plans through, or has the insight that comes from sticking with projects long term. She is incompetent at times. She is totally protected by law.
I have no sympathy with Boris Johnson, whom I consider an imposter. I think of this colleague as one too.
The rights of everyone need to be balanced, not just the desires of one individual who desires to have children.
Colleagues who don't have children feel especially pissed off and I don't blame them.
If I ran my own business, I'd be annoyed too. There is an element of self interest and game playing here or playing the system. If "the system" was all powerful and money was no object, this strategic financial survival would be fine.
But "the system" being played is fellow human beings. So yeah, you can do this and get away with it, but you clearly know there's a cost to others.’

@Maryjane3227

What sector are you in? Regardless, your employer needs to spend more money to reduce the immensity of the impact on you and your colleagues.

You can still dismiss someone who is pregnant but you have to be absolutely watertight in procedure and 'evidence' that would withstand scrutiny to prove it wasn't because they are pregnant. If someone is grossly incompetent and endlessly pregnant then it doesn't mean they can't be disciplined (as long as justified and not for sickness). It's just very hard and risky so most employers don't bother.

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes.

I think this is somewhat nuanced given the requirement for training within a specified timeframe. It’s not the same as taking on a job you’re already qualified to do and then going on mat leave which can be covered. A condition of accepting the role is the completion of a mandatory training course which she can’t do. It seems unreasonable to expect the business to run another training course just for her.

@BurbageBrook

Never thought there would be so much misogyny on MN from WOMEN against those unlucky enough to need to apply for jobs when pregnant. Really shitty attitudes.

This. I'm always disgusted by people's attitudes on these types of threads to pregnant women trying to make a career, or a living.

I'm not going to retract her offer (though we're not in the UK, and legally I'm allowed to) nor treat her any differently.

If no contracts have been signed and you can legally retract the offer then what is stopping you doing so? Not great for her and perhaps morally dubious, but if it will cause your business to suffer and potentially threaten your livelihood and that of your other employees, at the end of the day you don't owe her anything.

It’s probably already been said but look for the thread in legal where this happens and the lady takes them to court (rightly IMO).

If it's perfectly legal in the jurisdiction you are in I would detract the offer. It was made clear the requirements of the job when she applied. She chose not to disclose her circumstances. Why should you suffer financially.

I don’t know why everyone is so up in arms. For most jobs this wouldn’t be an issue. It’s the training that makes this situation unusual. Under normal circumstances the Op would bear the burden of mat leave. That’s ok.

But in this case the Op would either need to spend a lot of extra money to schedule extra training or agree with the candidate that they would wait until it’s convenient for the company.

@Viviennemary

Yes indeed big drip feed. Since you are not even in the UK and would not even be acting illegally if you withdraw the offer. What a time waster.

😂 😂

You know @Viviennemary

I actually agree with you for once. You do indeed waste your time posting ill-informed and sexist comments. I don't for a moment imagine you'll ever stop though.

Hope the people insinuating @RoomOfRequirement "pulled this stunt" in the past feel suitably ashamed tbh.