New recruit pregnant before job starting

[FlimFlamJimJams]

I've started a new business, it'll open to the public around April time.
It's a very small, community focused business with only 4 staff members initially.
I recruited all the staff within the last few weeks and are finalising contracts. Everyone has formal job offers, no one yet has a job contract.

The roles require training on the job resulting in a nationally recognised qualification, probably achieved within 12 months or so. The business is paying for this.

I have had meetings with everyone individually this week to go through bits and bobs, start dates etc - and at the end of a meeting with one lady yesterday, she tells me that she's 12 weeks pregnant and anticipates starting her Maternity leave around mid-July. She said she found out at 5 weeks - so she'd have known she was pregnant at interview.

I'm now stuck in a difficult position - the business is already going to struggle financially for the first few years (it's not quite a non-profit, but it's close) and I'm now facing having to extend someone's training at least 6 months past everyone else's as well as find temporary cover, which is expensive. She may well choose not to return after her maternity. I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

I guess there isn't a AIBU, because I'm not going to do anything, but I feel really deceived and a bit stressed about the whole thing.
I know everyone is entitled to get pregnant etc. But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

A man! (FFS)

I personally would retract the offer - which happens quite often for various reasons.

If I went to an interview for a job which required me to drive but I knew that I wouldn’t be able to for the first few months then I’d be very unreasonable not to tell them.

This is no different. She is not able to complete the training so therefore cannot do the job.

I’ve seen quite a few jobs saying that training needs to be completed within 12 months but I’m not sure what happens if they don’t - I believe they have to pay back the money.

@ShirleyPhallus

Hahaha! ‘Need to’?!! Haven’t you noticed we are rather over populated globally. Having children is a selfish act, done to bring joy to the parents. It’s not a civic duty. Indeed if being civic, more couple would elect to have none!

Why would you prefer to hire somebody who wasn't as good as her, just because she's pregnant?

Because they’d actually BE THERE!

And there for many years, presumably, being less competent.

@RoomOfRequirement Can you stop projecting your issues and anger on to others? PP are trying to help the OP, we are allowed to have a discussion and it’s not misogynistic, stop making it trivial.

@Haffiana

If you want to run a successful business then you need to do what is best for the business.

If you hamstring yourself with all these niceties and British rules and fairness or whatever, then you run the risk of running your business into the ground. Then you won't be employing anyone at all, and ALL your employees will be worse off, not just 1 out of 4.

So you need to toughen up and think a bit bigger, or pay the price for not doing so. If it is in fact true that you are not in the UK...

I hope you haven’t ever taken advantage of UK maternity or paternity laws then. Fucking hell.

You may not need to retract the offer. Just explain she will be doing all the unskilled work for the next few years until you are funding another round of training. She might choose not to take the offer. Though if she has told you before signing a contract, that’s her own daft fault - you can reasonably retract the offer while explaining that because she can’t complete the training and you can’t afford the additional costs of extending the training for another year just for her, it’s no longer viable. Who tells an employer before signing a contract? She doesn’t sound very bright!

[quote Abigail12345654321]@ShirleyPhallus

Hahaha! ‘Need to’?!! Haven’t you noticed we are rather over populated globally. Having children is a selfish act, done to bring joy to the parents. It’s not a civic duty. Indeed if being civic, more couple would elect to have none![/quote]
Until men can give birth, it does fall to women. so women who want children should not in case an employer with no morals acts illegally and unscrupulously? Sure

@TeaSoakedDisasterMagnet

But Op isn’t in the UK. So UK laws are not relevant.

@Abigail12345654321

You may not need to retract the offer. Just explain she will be doing all the unskilled work for the next few years until you are funding another round of training. She might choose not to take the offer. Though if she has told you before signing a contract, that’s her own daft fault - you can reasonably retract the offer while explaining that because she can’t complete the training and you can’t afford the additional costs of extending the training for another year just for her, it’s no longer viable. Who tells an employer before signing a contract? She doesn’t sound very bright!

What happens if another of the employees drops out of training halfway through? Will any new hire be made to do the “unskilled” work as punishment for not joining sooner? Or will they be allowed to train as a reward for not being pregnant?

Also the cancer analogy is ridiculous and frankly disrespectful, the prospective employee wasn’t undergoing cancer treatments at the time of application.

I don't think it is unreasonable that you feel stressed by this situation. It sounds like the role has very specific training requirements and due to ML these will be impossible to fulfil. It is also clear that the business will be investing heavily in their staff's qualifications, which is no mean feat for a start up.
It's not the successful applicants fault and she hasn't done anything wrong, but it is a difficult and stressful position that you find yourself in.
Do you think that you can sit down with her and talk about the training timeframes vs her ML timeframe. If the qualifications are essential to the role and they simply cannot be met due to being interrupted by ML surely it just isn't going to work?

I haven't RTFT, but I am sure some people have had a go at you and said this woman has the right to the job, even though she was KNOWINGLY pregnant.

I think it's a terrible thing to do to an employer personally. Very underhand and sneaky. KNOWING you're pregnant and not telling the employer...

OP, my actual advice to you is to negotiate maternity leave with her.
Even if you follow UK rules, she could take as little as 2 weeks. That's not very realistic, but you could negotiate fewer months of maternity leave (say, 3-4) and then extend her annual leave when the training is done, for example. Or arrange for her to return PT, for example, in a way that she could put in the training hours, but wouldn't put so much pressure on the business.
Again, this is something that can happen with any other female employee, and other issues withe male, and you will need to find solutions.

@Lweji

But I wasn't anticipating someone going on ML before they'd even qualified, or finished their probation.

Given the length of the probation and training, you should have antecipated this possibility, yes. As you should antecipate that other people can have accidents, become severely ill, etc.

I understand it’s difficult op but I agree with this. What if an employee had a car accident or a serious illness, or simply decided to leave half way through the training? These things happen and while I can see that it may be frustrating, it’s not your employee’s fault. As an employer the onus is on you you to deal with these things, maternity leave us no different.

No @Abigail12345654321 but it‘d a reply to @Haffiana who said British “niceties” run the risk of running the business into the ground, and so I hope that person didn’t or doesn’t feel entitled to the British fairness of maternity laws.

I turned down other applicants who applied after her job offer was made.

So you're saying you would have turned her down if you'd known and hired someone else. This is maternity discrimination.

5 weeks pregnant is very early to have known and most people don't know they're pregnant at that stage. Not that she would have legally had to tell you and she didn't have to even tell you at 12 weeks.

If your business can't take the strain of a pregnant employee, don't run a business.

Sick of these threads.

@LittleRoundRobin

I haven't RTFT, but I am sure some people have had a go at you and said this woman has the right to the job, even though she was KNOWINGLY pregnant.

I think it's a terrible thing to do to an employer personally. Very underhand and sneaky. KNOWING you're pregnant and not telling the employer...

Do you think she would have got the job if she had mentioned it at the time?

@Autumndays123 but it's not really different is it. OP has no idea how long it's taken her to get pregnant or stay pregnant. I have been 5 weeks pregnant a few times now and guess what, I still haven't yet got a baby.

If you're not allowed to apply for a new job when you are either pregnant or thinking about getting pregnant than that's thousands of women that are in essence stuck in jobs that are going nowhere. All the while men, the partners/husbands of these women are free to do whatever the hell they like.

Would you tell a prospective employee that you were pregnant before signing a contract @ShirleyPhallus

Heck, these days, would a man tell a prospective employer that his wife was pregnant before signing a contract?

I wouldn’t. Anyone who does is dim!

As time goes on and your employees start you might well find one or two leave so this could be something you have to deal with regardless of the maternity leave situation.

@Abigail12345654321

Would you tell a prospective employee that you were pregnant before signing a contract *@ShirleyPhallus*

Heck, these days, would a man tell a prospective employer that his wife was pregnant before signing a contract?

I wouldn’t. Anyone who does is dim!

Of course I wouldn’t, because it is ILLEGAL to discriminate in the way that you and countless other posters are suggesting

@LittleRoundRobin

I haven't RTFT, but I am sure some people have had a go at you and said this woman has the right to the job, even though she was KNOWINGLY pregnant.

I think it's a terrible thing to do to an employer personally. Very underhand and sneaky. KNOWING you're pregnant and not telling the employer...

What if she'd been made redundant from her previous job or her partner left her and she needs this job?

@showmethegin exactly! I can’t believe people are describing this woman as ‘deceitful’ and ‘sneaky’. Disgusted tbh.

^^Today 18:37 showmethegin

@Autumndays123 but it's not really different is it. OP has no idea how long it's taken her to get pregnant or stay pregnant. I have been 5 weeks pregnant a few times now and guess what, I still haven't yet got a baby.

If you're not allowed to apply for a new job when you are either pregnant or thinking about getting pregnant than that's thousands of women that are in essence stuck in jobs that are going nowhere. All the while men, the partners/husbands of these women are free to do whatever the hell they like.

^ exactly this!