To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@errnerrcallnernnernnern

I hope someone called them out on the Whatsapp group?

In our case, yes, the HT told them not to use it to bully people. But the parents got what they wanted - DS was still excluded permanently.

@gogohm schools are schooled in LA policy. The only requirement to secure an EHC needs assessment is that a child has or may have SEN and they need or may need support through a plan. That is the law and it is the law that will be upheld if the EHC needs assessment is refused and a parent appeals.

@Sirzy

Unfortunately there is now recent case law that has called the whole need for very specified and quantified provision in to question and has stated that flexibility should be considered especially as the EHCP is a living document.

That’s worrying and goes against the SEN code of practise.

Surely that’s why you have annual reviews/emergency reviews because it’s a live document so may need to change.

I've linked to a Council For Disabled Children review of the case here, yes very worrying as it has definitely made the issue of specificity more difficult to argue for. The argument is that waiting for formal reviews may not be in the best interests of the pupil/child, from what I understand after reading this.

councilfordisabledchildren.org.uk/resources-0/case-law-directory/ehc-plans/case-law-update-52-redbridge-v-ho-level-specificity

Hiredandsqueak With some digging you can find how much LAs are spending without FOI requests IF the LA are not fiddling with payments to get under the limit. LAs are required to publish payments and expenses over £500, so if you are aware of when the LA are using someone’s services you can see, or take an educated guess depending on how much detail your LA publishes, the exact amount.

Meadowbreeze in that case law the disputed provision was to be undertaken at home. There is a difference between a certain amount of flexibility that may be beneficial and a vague and woolly worded EHCP that allows the LA/school to squirm out of providing necessary provision when provision could reasonably be detailed, specified and quantified. No doubt there will be further case law in due course.

DS1 has EOTAS and his EHCP is specified and quantified to the nth degree because otherwise the EOTAS package doesn’t work. DS3 is in MS and he also has a highly detailed, specified and quantified section F. Perhaps if they were in SS a degree of flexibility in provision, not wording, may be better suited.

I'm getting extreme anxiety reading this. I have finally managed to get an EHCP for DS but I worry and worry that it might not be specific enough, or cover everything. I'm undergoing diagnosis for adhd myself and I struggle with legal stuff and confrontational situations, so even getting him an EHCP was a fucking triumph of determination over natural ability. I'm lucky to be educated, good at writing and determined, I feel endless sorrow for less fortunate children with families less able to advocate, but it was by no means easy or simple for me, eao since his dad was quite happy to just turn up to meetings, contribute irrelavancies because he hadn't bothered researching and let me do the legwork.

And don't get me started on the LA who tried to wriggle out of providing any funding because DS was achieving at school. He was only achieving because he had the school funding 121 for him for about 3/4 of his timetable and made the SENDCO his form tutor for the next school year. Before his diagnosis and the extra help they funded he was at risk of exclusion. He would have been excluded of they hadn't worked so hard with him. Even then I was having to call the LA constantly, point out that my child was a risk to other students without supervision, that just because his processing speed was 'average' (at 50 percent) that he wasn't disabled by it, because his IQ is 98 or 99 percent and he literally ends up speechless because his brain is running faster than his ability to do anything about it.

God I am so angry and upset any time I think about this. And yes, the snide, PA comments from other parents are just the salt in the fucking wound because the sheer ADMIN needs of an SEN child, never mind the emotional, physical, financial toll it takes are just overwhelming and yet they somehow act like you're depriving them or trying to get one over on them.

I am so looking forward to DSs secondary school. I met the SENDCO and they have a SEN parents WhatsApp group set up for all SEN parents as well as a bunch of other measures that prove to me they truly understand and support neuordiversity. I have so much hope.

@imitatingdory Well I got the number of Tribunals the LA used the services of a barrister within a timeframe and the supposed costs or barristers services. Supposing the barrister attended only one day (when I knew at least two hearings were two day hearings and one was a three day hearing with barrister attending all days) and a day was eight hours, the costs the LA quoted worked out at £50ph when that is obviously not the case and didn't allow for any work prior or after to the hearing, travel (mine arrived by train ticket that day would have been in excess of £100) or subsistence.

*that doesn't mean he wasn't disabled by it

@Imitatingdory I see. In any case, case law doesn't trump statutory law. At best it works alongside but these sorts of tribunal cases are always so very different from each other. I wouldn't particularly worry about this. It is not the laws intent to ensure LAs provide the best provision, but to provide provision that meets the child's needs which is sometimes hard to accept.
They can appeal that decision too though and the fact it is case law just shows how rarely this type of decision is made.

@hiredandsqueak you would think they would make their lies believable. I know a neighbouring LA released different information via FOI to that which was publicly published as part of their payments and expenses information.

@Meadowbreeze that and I’m sure there will be further case law soon is why I posted it don’t think the case law is as damaging as to say EHCPs can be vague and woolly and shouldn’t be detailed, specified and quantified.

I confess that i have read so much on this and still dont quite get how the funding works.

I know schools get one payment that is per child and its presumed some of that goes on send, like employing a SENCo and training.

I know they get another payment that is for SEND specifically, but isnt linked to specific children and can be spent how the school wants in theory.

And i know they can apply for top up funding from the high needs block for specific children.

Its the middle funding i dont get - thats where the notional 6k is and I read some things that say an ehcp should be fully funded and another that say the first 6k should come from this bit of the budget.

Which leaves a gap in provision for children on SEN support if the whole of that middle bit is used on ehcps. I can see that legally if you have more ehcps than that middle band of funding funds a school can argue for more funding in that block as the LA has to fund it. I cant get my head round if the block and number of ehcps match what the situation is then, as it leaves no other general funding for SEND other than the bit of the per pupil funding assumed for SEND.

No doubt they were lies. That said I have Head of SEND recorded admitting she had lied to my solicitor and admitting school had lied as well. Have a lovely email from school advising me that they couldn't confirm they had lied before they checked with Head of SEND whether they could admit they had lied after I sent them the recording of Head of SEND admitting lying( and dropping the school in it) whilst denying sabotage, Complaint about school accepted by Ofsted

'It's incredible what mental yoga NT parents do to blame the disabled kid for needing and accessing support.'

Yep. If they don't have a 1-1 they're taking up too much of the teachers time. If they do have a 1-1 it's not fair because why shouldn't my child have a 1-1 too sorry but SEN children also exist in this world and won't just disappear to make life easier for you.

AND when LAs again cut the funding for SEN assistants, who do way more than just work with kids with SEN, your child will be affected just as much as mine is. So, please use your considerable voices to argue against these cuts. Because when they listen to you making a fuss about say, cutting back on music tuition and decide not to do that, they quietly make cuts in ASN provision instead.

Next time you complain because that kid in the class who has autism disrupted the class for the umpteenth time, perhaps think about whether you have given enough support to the parents who have been fighting for appropriate provision for their child for years?

Our council wanted to cut the school day by 15 minutes, still protecting the 190 hours of F2F teaching. So many parents went absolutely batshit about it, they didn't do it. Instead they reduced Support for learning assistant hours by 25% (on top of similar cuts year on year for the previous 3 years) Previous year they retained breakfast clubs for all instead of only having them for kids on free school meals.

It is a fucking disgrace how our kids are sidelined because other voices are louder.

'It's incredible what mental yoga NT parents do to blame the disabled kid for needing and accessing support.'
It's the same I find for their child associating with your ND child.
If their child is actively friendly with yours - obviously your child is OK making friends, so they need not make the effort to find a playdate/outing that your child could cope with if they don't do cinema/loud spaces/large groups/parties but could do the park/at home 1:1 to play games etc.

If their child doesn't know your child that well - obviously your child is so poor at making friends then trying to get them together so they can become friends is not going to work.

It can be toilet paper money.

The difference in having a SFLA or not is whether or not my daughter can access the toilet in the first place. These people allow my daughter to access the same level of education as your child. You think she shouldn't have that because there is a lack of funding across the board? The SEN funding gives her equality. Sure, that might be equality to fully access a system that is failing in some areas but I don't believe it would be fair to put her at a further disadvantage so that non SEN kids can have something better.

If you need to fight for more toilet paper, go and fight for more toilet paper. I'll join you in that. Don't expect money is taken from kids who aren't even given enough in the first place and who without it won't have the same advantages as even the toiletpaperless kids in your school.

When I first became a secondary SENCo, there were, in my department, 25 TAs and two teachers. There were a high number of students with statements (at that time) and a specialist SLCN unit.

I discovered recently, that the school now has a total of 8 TAs and no specialist provision.

I made it my business to investigate the funding for the department and discovered that part of that funding was being used to make up the salary of a newly qualified teacher in the IT department. When I challenged this, I was told that he would be teaching some children with SEND.

From the perspective of a SENCo, it can be totally frustrating and anger inducing, to see the money that should be available to support more vulnerable students, being diverted. It is also the case that challenging these financial decisions can lead to a swift departure from the school.

I’ve had parents of children without additional needs being completely unable to see that the amendments we made to the curriculum, to the day to day logistics, to the support we offered, did in fact benefit their children, because it meant support was in place to promote learning and teaching in the classroom.

I'm sat beside my relative who has been a deputy head and then a head for more than 20 years across 3 local authorities. She has never received enough funding for a full time support assistant even where they have complex needs and need a full time one to one, the most that has ever been granted is equivalent to a half time post (and that is what is usually granted). The rest comes from her schools budget. That is not in any way to say this is how it should be, but like with so many things the rhetoric is there and the funding isn't.

@DietrichandDiMaggio

Just to be clear, I am totally of the opinion that a TA employed as 1-1 for a child with an EHCP should not be used as a general class TA, but I'm also saying that not every TA working 1-1 is working with a child that has an EHCP stating that they need full-time 1-1 support (in my school). Also, in my school, there will always be a general TA in the class, as well as the 1-1.

Not always in our infant school there's a TA in each class 9-12. No TA in junior school at all.

@hiredandsqueak could I ask what sort of information should I expect from a SAR to my DDs primary school? I’m in the process of putting in a unsupported by school, parental request for educational needs assessment, she’s in Year6, so I do think there’s a high level of feet dragging hoping I’ll go away as she won’t be their issue soon. Masking highly anxious ASD suspected child who has gone from above expectations in year1 to failed to meet learning standards on her year5 report. But academically bright.

It amazes me how many people thing equality means treat everyone the same. It doesn't. Sen children get additional support/funding to enable them to achieve to the best of their ability which they would be unable to do with out additional support. All schools need more funding for all pupils but the sen budget is for Sen children it should not be reallocated to none sen children. And it does not take away from none sen children. They were not entitled to it in the first place. Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorant people who have no clue of the challenges sen children deal with every day.

@Sirzy

If I hadn’t fought to get DS a watertight EHCP (30 hours 1-1) then one of two outcomes would have happened -

• the education of the whole class would have been disrupted daily due to his unmet needs.

Or

• the LA would have had to fund a place at a suitable specialist setting. The only one that could come close to being suitable for him is an independent specialist. It would have cost an awful lot more than his 1-1 does.

As it is he has had full 1-1 since year 2, funded from his ehcp since year 3. He is now in year 7 at a mainstream secondary and because he is supported he is thriving and he isn’t negatively impacting the education of others at all.

Getting the right support in for the individual child with additional needs at an early age will often actually cost a lot less and be a lot less disruptive to others over time.

Absolutely early intervention is not only best for the child it provides the best long term out comes

A SAR should contain all the information the school holds about your child so you should get , attendance records, learning levels, progress, any interventions they have done, any behaviour incidents, any support or advice they have asked for basically everything that the school has they are obliged to supply within thirty days. This would support your EHC needs assessment request . There are templates online that you can use to make the request

In summary, if a child with SEN is 'upsetting' other children, or taking too much time of the class teacher/TA, then other parents should lobby the school to provide extra support to the child, not to have the child removed.

As someone currently going through the EHCP process this has been insightful & depressing in equal measure.

[quote SkiRun0077]@hiredandsqueak could I ask what sort of information should I expect from a SAR to my DDs primary school? I’m in the process of putting in a unsupported by school, parental request for educational needs assessment, she’s in Year6, so I do think there’s a high level of feet dragging hoping I’ll go away as she won’t be their issue soon. Masking highly anxious ASD suspected child who has gone from above expectations in year1 to failed to meet learning standards on her year5 report. But academically bright.[/quote]
If the school is not a mainstream independent school or an academy you can make a request for your child's education records under the Pupil Information Regulations 2005 and they have to comply within 15 days.

@theqentity

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

And also to add, as a TA that did exactly this, whose funding came from council to the one the school was in (child went to school in a different borough) that the school should not be using that TA to do any roles that aren't related to said child. Some schools will try to use it to cut down on extra staff