To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

I hear you. My son has a ta. 1 to 1 . It has taken me 7 years to go through everything from diagnosis to moving schools and home ed to get his support right. He has a lot of diagnosis. The teacher said " not everyone is as lucky as you and gets lots of support for their son... this lad and this one need it but have nothing ..funding isn't shared fairly " I did ask have their parents asked fought and gone to tribunal for support? Or are they and the school waiting for it to drop in their lap.. and you are so right my son and my family are lucky to have the need of so much support and so have so many labels attached to get "help"

@CinnamonJellyBeans

Do you also have a home care package, so there is a paid carer available to be constantly in a room, looking at him without stepping away?

This is what the parent does 🙄

⬆️ this.

But people do need educating to know that some children's needs mean that there may be a care package overnight to ensure a child is cared for while a parent can sleep for a few precious hours!
A child may have a medical need which needs 24/7 care AND have no education needs so go to mainstream school!

Oh...and by that I mean no intellectual or learning difficulties to stop them learning. No needs apart from medical needs for which they need 1:1 to stop them being a barrier to learning .....blah blah...

We don’t qualify for any extra care and I haven’t pushed it as Ds wouldn’t tolerate it. But it means that other than the one night a week my mum fantastically steps in I am getting up at least 3 times a night to sort his feeding pump and regularly starting the day at 3am.

I know people who have it much tougher but even though Ds is 12 you can never fully relax when looking after him because you don’t know what’s just around the corner

Oh we do qualify for a respite package of 6 hours per week term time and 15 hours school holidays.. sorting it out and finding carers and trying to establish some form.of consistency and reliability was so horrific it was not worth the toll.

It’s like the holiday clubs, our LA have been pushing booking children for their break time scheme but when I contact the providers and explain Ds needs none of them are willing to touch us with a barge poll!

I have given up expecting any outside support (beyond the 1-1 and brilliant school) and thanks my lucky stars for having a wonderful family

@CinnamonJellyBeans sorry if you didn't realise this before but the children who have the kind of needs you describe where they would be fine alone for a few minutes don't have one to one TA's in most cases. My 8 year-old would be like one of those children. He has moderate learning difficulties, a hearing impairment (wears hearing aids), brain abnormalities and feeding problems. If he had a 1-1 then he would be fine on his own while the TA helped someone else for a bit. He doesn't get a full time 1-1 because he doesn't need it. He does get extra help at various times during the day but not full time 1-1. The children who get full time 1-1 support need constant supervision and they can't share that support. In a lot of cases the child's parents/carers have faced a huge battle to get the support their child receives and often the support received is the bare minimum that the child needs. So it's not surprising that parents go into fight mode when someone who is unaware of the situation thinks that their child's support should be shared.

Mumofsend that is exactly like DS1. He cannot cope with the more creative, less structured subjects to the extent his EOTAS package doesn’t include any. Exercise is only included because it is essential for a medical condition and without structured sessions he wouldn’t be active at all. There seems to be an assumption SEMH pupils struggle academically and can engage more with creative lessons. With the looks I received you could be mistaken for thinking I had two heads when explaining to the ARPs and asking about flexibility.

Lockdowns showed us how much we rely on respite. DS3’s DPs could be spent flexibly, but DS1’s needs are more complex and it was difficult. We get 14hrs/week (which is actually 7 hours because of 2:1 care) and 10 overnights a year for DS1 and 6hrs/week for DS3. Finding carers for DS1 is a nightmare, and is becoming harder as he gets older.

Okay, so now I am genuinely confused (and that's not a goady tell me more so I can catch you out and say "muahaha" confused)

I know parents whose children have a 1:1 TA in every lesson, assigned to them via their ECHP, whose TA does indeed assist other children, both at their desk and away from their desk. These are ECHPs who don't need breaktime supervision, who attend a mainstream school just like @hercisback sees in her school. It's definitely 1:1 TA support and it's their TA.

Now, I'm getting the impression from @elliejjtiny that "1:1 ECHP support" must mean constant supervision and it's only for extremely high and unrelenting needs, so this must not be compromised (which is fair enough)

@CinnamonJellyBeans no, even within 1-1 support there is a huge variety. Unless you have EHCPs in front of you you can't possibly know what a child does/does not need. You can have a child with a high level of 1-1 interventions throughout all their learning but do not necessarily need the constant supervision.

Being Category A - that means with lunchtime/break time supervision is very rare. The LEA hardly fund it and it's usually for medical reasons/safety reasons.

1:1 TA as you are describing probably means the EHCP says 'may be delivered in small groups'
The TA is then free to work with other children as part of group work.

Otherwise the child in question has less than full time hours.....they don't have full time as you say the breaks are not covered. So the EHCP will say eg 20, 25 hours. The hours are distributed over the week. The other hours are 'for the classroom' or whatever the head dictates.

@CinnamonJellyBeans there is no contradiction there. Some children might need 1:1 for certain situations, but not all of class time. Other children might need 1:1 for all lessons with academic work but not for things like art or PE/drama/music, etc. Some children may need 1:1 for class time but no extra support at break time, etc. So their EHCP will have a different level of support attached to it.

Certainly, I was told that if DD1 needed full 1:1 (Ed Psych suggested she'd be ok in 'art' - she would eat the materials; PE - couldn't follow instructions; and break times - would climb over gates and fences) then special school was more appropriate. I knew it was rubbish but let it slide because I wanted special school and places were hard to come by.

But not in reality

Just popping into say that DitherCats post sounds very much like the local authority non statutory guidelines for how it categorises children and their disability. That’s nothing whatsoever to do with the law, which is quite clear that that which is written in section F of the plan must be delivered, the legal duty remains on the LA to maintain the plan and that legal duty cannot be delegated.

Instead of people bickering amongst themselves, why not remember the core issue is that education is woefully underfunded, and this absolutely affects everyone. Each class should have a class TA, just as every child who needs 1 to 1 support should receive that. As is neither happens in reality, whether its the school or the LA its all government money and they decide how to spend it. Of course other parents shouldn't be passing comment but the shite public services we accept in this country is depressing.

Pugroll except one (1:1 provision in EHCPs) is a statutory requirement governed by legislation, and the other (class TA) is not. If one (1:1 provision in EHCPs) is not provided it leaves the school and LA open to legal proceedings, whereas not providing the other (class TA) does not. The school, nor the LA, can not lawfully decide to spend the funding elsewhere at the expense of not providing the 1:1 provision in EHCPs. 1:1’s and general classroom TAs cannot be compared.

@Imitatingdory

Pugroll except one (1:1 provision in EHCPs) is a statutory requirement governed by legislation, and the other (class TA) is not. If one (1:1 provision in EHCPs) is not provided it leaves the school and LA open to legal proceedings, whereas not providing the other (class TA) does not. The school, nor the LA, can not lawfully decide to spend the funding elsewhere at the expense of not providing the 1:1 provision in EHCPs. 1:1’s and general classroom TAs cannot be compared.

I know, I'm saying in an ideal world. My point about it not always being the case is that not all children who need an ECHP can actually get one.

The parents of DC who need an EHCP, but don’t have one, should be encouraged and supported to appeal, the majority are upheld.

I think the point @Pugroll is trying to make is that the process shouldn't be that hard and support should be available to all who need it. I'm not sure how anyone can argue with that. Schools and parents shouldn't be told to follow a system that is wrong, and parents shouldn't need to fight as hard as they do, leaving many children disadvantaged.

I understand the point Pugroll is making, I am not saying that the system shouldn’t be so difficult to navigate and adversarial. It is a sad indictment of society that DC whose parents can advocate from them receive better support. However, 1:1 provision in EHCPs, as per the OP, that has invariable involved a laborious process, cannot be compared to classroom TA provision and should not be used to provide support for others.

"The parents of DC who need an EHCP, but don’t have one, should be encouraged and supported to appeal, the majority are upheld."

The problem is the process is very intimidating. Ds started school with far less support than he needed - non verbal, incontinent and understanding similar to that of a 12 month old but given 10 hours of support in mainstream. It was only through meeting other 'difficult' parents of slightly older similar children I understood how to go about sorting this out.
I am now very familiar with education law and dealing with the LA (and the unlawful rubbish they spout) and can support other parents but it is very difficult when you are starting out.

Which is why I said “encouraged and supported”.

Completely agree @Imitatingdory , I must have missed where @Pugroll said different.

When schools are being fed the LA lies though sadly the support is hard to find.

I am helping do a request for a needs assessment for a friends son. As expected it’s been turned down so next week I’m going to help her start looking at the appeal process next week. School agree he needs the extra support but believe the plan review do rubbish so are putting off applying.

It seems really the only accessible support for many is other parents and to get anywhere you need to become an expert in the law.