To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@Missdread

Some of these stories are truly heartbreaking. As both a parent of a child with SEND and a primary teacher, I have a pretty good overview and I'm sad to say that the system truly is broken. From a parent's point of view, IF you can get a referral to CAMHS early enough (and it's a big IF with GPs, HVs and schools all passing the buck over whose job it is to refer as they're all too swamped and have so little capacity), you may have an 18 month to 3 year wait to be seen. IF you are "lucky" enough to receive a diagnosis for your child, you will then be cast off and left alone without support ("Congratulations! Your child has ASD. Now off you go!"). If you need support for issues connected to the diagnosis you need to re-refer in many cases. It's desperate, hopeless and I know many families who have been advised to ring the POLICE when they are at breaking point due to meltdowns or a child in danger as there is no effective community mental health provision.

From a teacher's point of view, IF you have a child in your class with an ECHP, they MAY come with hours of funding, typically 15, 20 or 30 hours. But many do not and in these cases, we still have to keep the child and everyone else safe so the TA would be funded from the school budget. The vast majority of children with SEND do not have an ECHP, as these can take years to get. In infants especially, it is common to have 3 or 4 children without ECHPs in a class of 30 with severe behavioural needs. There may be 1 TA between two classes. So much of my day is spent supporting and dealing with challenging behaviour related to SEND that I can often barely teach at all. There is no support from anywhere. It is dire and I'm not sure what the answer is :-(

'Severe behavioural needs'.

No such thing mate. Unmet needs maybe.

@Dithercats

£62 per week carers allowance. Parents who mostly cannot work around our children's high needs.

Enjoy your pondering cinnamon

Exactly this. I haven't been on a night out with my husband in over six years. Because only he or I can safely supervise DS. Must be nice to be able to ponder...

@hiredandsqueak that's brilliant, a huge achievement for your ds.

Carers Allowance = £67.60 for 35hrs p/wk care, the equivalent of £1.93 an hour.

However most carers are caring 24/7 and even in the times when they are not actively caring, e.g., when they're sleeping, they are "on call/on standby".

Therefore £67.60 over 24/7 = 40p per hour.

And that's just for the people who qualify for it, there are plenty of carers who don't qualify because their income pushes them over the threshold or they're in education or they're outside the age limits or the person they card for can't access the qualifying benefits. They're still carers.

Bit of a kick in the teeth when you realise that all of these carers save the government an estimated £132 billion a year in social care costs.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

Some of those incidents sound too risky for mainstream school

most of them are, however there is an extreme lack of specialist provision out there.. where i live, there is ZERO for primary age unless the child also has profound learning difficulties.

So, my DS who has ASD/ADHD/DCD needed a full time 1:1 with him in primary school to enable him to access the education he is legally entitled to.

His TA's job was to supervise him, to differentiate the set class work so he could actually DO the work (executive functioning issues) work as a scribe (DCD meant DS can't hold a pencil/write) accompany him if he needed a movement break or time out of the classroom/in the calm room because he was having a meltdown. To restrain him during a meltdown. To protect him from other students actions that could provoke a meltdown, to provide therapy, emotional support, and to facilitate his participation in all aspects of the school day for enrichment and social development.

She was employed specifically for him, attending extra training courses to enable her to work with him, was paid for by his EHCP.

So no, she wasn't there to support the other kids in class.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

In the situations described by imitatingdory; the risks have not been adequately managed by having a 1:1 TA

It's nigh on impossible to keep a child from having zero physical contact in a mainstream school.

Most mainstream schools are definitely not secure enough to prevent a child who is determined from absconding

well.. yes it is actually.

Ds had similar issues, he sat in a corner of the classroom, in front of the teachers desk, with a little cubicle almost, he sat against the wall, and his TA sat next to him between him and the rest of the class... so when she was sat with him, teaching him/supporting him, no-one else was able to get near him, and he wasn't able to bolt... what he had to do was let her know he needed to leave the room, and she would escort him where he needed to go.

Had she been the other side of the classroom helping someone else, she'd be leaving him exposed to the chance of someone bothering him.

There is so much Disparity in provision for children with SEN across the UK ,in my town and I realise this is unusual we have two SEN primary school,s one that meets the needs of children with moderate to severe learning disabilities,and one that meets the needs of children with severe to profound learning disabilities,we also have two SEN high school,s with the same criteria ,also there are two ASD hubs primary ,and two ASD hubs secondary ,and there are still children who fall through the cracks .

Ds is academically pretty able but needs high level of support. Locally we have one specialist school which offers GCSEs at all, and that is an independent one which it takes a battle to get in to.

In many ways mainstream isn’t right for ds but it is the best of a bad bunch of options and thankfully so far with the right support in place it’s going ok.

@x2boys

There is so much Disparity in provision for children with SEN across the UK ,in my town and I realise this is unusual we have two SEN primary school,s one that meets the needs of children with moderate to severe learning disabilities,and one that meets the needs of children with severe to profound learning disabilities,we also have two SEN high school,s with the same criteria ,also there are two ASD hubs primary ,and two ASD hubs secondary ,and there are still children who fall through the cracks .

That's similar to the provision in my area. My children fall between the cracks.

My son has no learning difficulties but has SPD but couldn't cope with the fact that he was seen as different due to needing access to the SEN room. Ended up completely traumatised. He's been out of school for 4 years on EOTAS, he would have probably thrived in a small setting for autistic children with no learning difficulties, but by the time he came out even independents were out of the question. He had a year where his mental health was so bad he couldn't access any education but is doing GCSE's this year at home and hopes to attend a mainstream college. I think he has a chance of managing this because he can leave without being seen as a bolter.

My daughter does have learning difficulties but in spite of those she is cognitively highly capable. Also traumatised by the lack of appropriate provision. She has very complex needs. The LA completely acknowledges there is no where they can put her that can meet need. She wouldn't cope in a residential.

So many children fall through gaps.

Inclusion doesn't always work and has, imo, removed SEN funding and settings.

@x2boys

There is so much Disparity in provision for children with SEN across the UK ,in my town and I realise this is unusual we have two SEN primary school,s one that meets the needs of children with moderate to severe learning disabilities,and one that meets the needs of children with severe to profound learning disabilities,we also have two SEN high school,s with the same criteria ,also there are two ASD hubs primary ,and two ASD hubs secondary ,and there are still children who fall through the cracks .

there's one primary for children with profound learning disabilities, and 2 secondarys.. one is specialist for kids with an EHCP who have ASD and no additional learning disability, and one for kids with learning disability.

Both have limited spaces, and there's a lot of people who don't make it, and have to be supported in mainstream.

I think it's definitely harder for children who don't meet the criteria for SEN school but whose needsvl are to complex for mainstream ,it's definitely not a one size fits all ,i know there are non LEA specialist schools that could meet some children's needs but they cost £££,s and its a fight getting LEA,s to fund those places

I've been looking at the independent specialist schools (I think we are up to looking at 9 so far). The secondary ones have a GCSE pass rate of approximately 0%. DS is in Y5 and working at age level in both Maths and English (at least, if you don't expect him to write connected prose you can read, by hand - he has DCD).
He also won't talk to/play with the other children with SEMH problems because he finds them scary.
Yet no mainstream school will take him, partly because they don't think they can get a good enough 1:1 and partly because he finds classrooms overwhelming (makes no difference what size they are - he finds a class of 7 overwhelming - so it's no good saying "but he'll be in the class at a specialist school).
We are being pushed to send him to a school where he will have no friends and not be in the class and not get any GCSEs because the mainstream schools only want pupils who will be in the classroom all the time.

I believe the money is no longer ring fenced so you need to fight to ensure your child gets the provision stipulated. There are so many things wrong with the law and the current system. Under this current administration they have very quietly undone any reason to ensure those with disabilities get any where near a level playing field.
Local Authorities don't have the expertise or the money. They are relying on over stretched allied health care professionals to support children. Schools are barely coping. Teachers are so over worked its impossible to really be able to support 1:1 provision. A TA is not a teacher they shouldn't be expected to teach children who need specialist support.
The system is broken. Utterly broken. Parents become warrior's constantly in defence or attack mode its awful.

The flip side is often the child hates being made to feel different from their peers. They hate the yearly review meetings are very intimating sitting round a table being reminded what you struggle with. A little bit about strengths. Often their voice is utterly missed as professionals and well being parents have passive aggressive conversations about meaningless suppot.
How much time does this waste.

The good news is I've seen some brilliant post 16 provision. Not least as the child finally starts to do what they want usually with like minded peers and staff who are so down to earth and pragmatic.
I've often whispered to kids things will gey better you will find your way you just need to get through school. It's like no one ever admits that for neuro diverse kids school can be a depressing place. Mainstream School is not set up for diversity.

"Your child might not need the TA to be sat next to him/her monitoring and assisting every syllable/digit/interaction. If the TA leaves his/her side for a few minutes at a time and assists other pupils, I am sure your child will be fine and it's a step towards independence."

Which part of my child's disability would you like your child to have. The non verbalness, the incontinence, the self injurious behaviour......?. You can have some of the hours and funding in exchange for some of those.

Okay, y'all...

Original post does not specify ANY details of her child's needs.

I can only go on what she wrote which is that other parents want a share of her child's 1:1 TA. So based on what she says, I'm asking why she cannot share.

Then and only then, do we get a cascade of severe needs: Instant spontaneous catastrophic medical emergencies/non-verbal/incontinent/jumping over fences/attacking other kids unless contained and watched and of course blaming me for having no understanding of something she has FAILED to post. Then we get everyone piling on with their extreme needs like I'm trying to steal off their kid.

I'm very disappointed in the whatsapp parents who want to take resources from a child with such extreme needs, but it wasn't me. I don't want your TA, it's OK. Tell them, not me

The needs of the child are irrelevant. If an ehcp states a child gets x hours of 1-1 then they get x hours of 1-1.

Not 1-1 unless someone else needs help!

Ds has 25 hours 1-1 for lesson times. The 1-1 as the title suggests is there for him.

The reasons for that are nothing to do with other children or parents

@mynamesnotMa my child's 1-1 does not teach her. Her role is that the teacher sets the work, differentiates it to DD's level and then her 1-1 delivers it in an accessible format for DD and then records my DD's work to show her actual ability.

@drspouse have you looked at mainstreams with units? Sorry if that's telling you to suck eggs. I was in an identical situation to you with my DD. In the end I enforced her right to a mainstream education and a mainstream was forced to take her. She has a very individual timetable for her day. She tends to do the quiet core times in class, is out most of the afternoons and does a couple of brain breaks and outside the classroom sessions in the morning. We were also in the same impossible situation so even though mainstream really could not meet her needs, it was somehow the better option than the SEMH specialist that was the only option :(

And if my child does something because her (very highly funded) 1-1 was with someone else I point blank would refuse responsibility being placed on my child.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

Okay, y'all...

Original post does not specify ANY details of her child's needs.

I can only go on what she wrote which is that other parents want a share of her child's 1:1 TA. So based on what she says, I'm asking why she cannot share.

Then and only then, do we get a cascade of severe needs: Instant spontaneous catastrophic medical emergencies/non-verbal/incontinent/jumping over fences/attacking other kids unless contained and watched and of course blaming me for having no understanding of something she has FAILED to post. Then we get everyone piling on with their extreme needs like I'm trying to steal off their kid.

I'm very disappointed in the whatsapp parents who want to take resources from a child with such extreme needs, but it wasn't me. I don't want your TA, it's OK. Tell them, not me

My point is it's none of your damn business why my child needs their 1-1.

You don't get 1-1 unless it's needed and even then it is incredible begrudgingly by the LA. It's safe to say if a child has one then it absolutely is needed.

mynamesnotMa my child's 1-1 does not teach her. Her role is that the teacher sets the work, differentiates it to DD's level and then her 1-1 delivers it in an accessible format for DD and then records my DD's work to show her actual ability.**

That is teaching. I wasn't referring to your child I have no idea what their needs are. Have you responded to the whats app mums or just left the Group? You are the best advocate for your child.

@mynamesnotMa no, it is not teaching. It is entirely what a TA is supposed to do.

@Mumofsend yes and there aren't any in our county.