To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

Ah that's unhelpful then @drspouse. Our LA have only just cottoned on to them so we only have 2 but they probably would have been ideal for my DD. Unfortuantly kids who need fully specialist are stuck in them and children who would benefit from them in the full intent of what they are supposed to do can't access them

What did the WhatsApp group say when you told them. 🤔

"Then and only then, do we get a cascade of severe needs"

A child doesn't get given an EHCP specifying 1:1 unless people with knowledge, decide the child needs it. 1:1 funding is expensive and Local Authorities who hate spending money, don't specify it unless they have to. I fail to see how randoms with no knowledge are better placed to judge.

1. I'm not judging whether the child needs a 1:1 TA; I merely asked if the child can be left while the TA helps a different child in the same room.

1. If you don't want to discuss with randoms on the internet, then don't post in the "Am I being unreasonable?" board

@CinnamonJellyBeans they aren't there to help another child. That's the whole point.

Are you missing what the point of a 1-1 is cinnamon?

Do you realise just how important a good 1-1 can be in allowing a child to come close to accessing the curriculum in the way other children do?

Yes. I know what 1:1 is there for. It doesn't have to be seated doing nothing whilst waiting for the child to need the next bit of support

e.g. partially sighted child has a 1:1 to describe, enlarge materials and scribe/assist with keyboard, wheelchair bound child has a 1:1 to assist with mobility during and in between lessons, a partially deaf or lip-reading child may need a 1:1 to sign for them, severe cognitive needs may need a 1:1 to support, child who cannot write or use a laptop needs a 1:1 to scribe for them, diabetic child who is still learning to manage insulin levels/pump

In all of these cases, the TA can leave their seat and assist others if they need to. There will also be times when the class teacher is doing her own 1:1 with the child, or small group work involving the child. If this is the case, the TA can also leave her seat next to the child, so yes, it would be entirely reasonable for the TA to be a shared resource, especially if the TA is willing to help and the class teacher is happy for her to do this.

So I asked why can the child not share and does he really need to have 100% constant surveillance. I got the answer (plus undisclosed info that is called a "drip feed" on this board) and loads of other posters angry at me because their child has educational needs.

Like I said, don't be angry with me: I don't want you kids' TA. be a tiger mum off your screen and tell the other parents.

But then the 1-1 will be assigned fewer hours or whatever to cover the times that child needs it.

If a child has full 1-1 they have full 1-1 that is their role. Nothing to do with any other parent and certainly not a shared resource.

It can't be fewer hours, as the TA must be available at all times as and when she is needed.

@CinnamonJellyBeans no it really isn't appropriate. If a child is fully funded full hours of 1-1 it is because they need it. I think you over estimate how much spare time there is for a TA to be bored when supporting a child deemed to require 1-1.

If course it can be fewer hours. The hours assigned will depend on the needs of the child.

Section F of the ehcp will outline what support is needed and how that will be provided. If a student needs 1-1 support for 5 hours a week then it will be written that they need 5 hours 1-1support. If a child needs someone available but not necessarily in a 1-1 basis that will be what’s written in.

Full 1-1 is only written in if that is what is needed. Normally it comes after one hell of a fight to get the provision which they are legally entitled to. I had to get threaten legal action before the LA agreed to write the specific provision needed.

And rarely would a child have 1-1 unless they have a range of needs.

My daughter can't read or write. She can't focus independently. She can barely manage to stay sat down in a seat. It's not a case of scribing and job done. She needs full support to even remain in her seat

A child who just needs scribing etc would not qualify for even close to full time 1-1.

You are underestimating the needs required to need full time 1-1

Goodness me. I’m stunned by the ignorance here. My son had a full-time 1:1 when he was in mainstream. She didn’t provide support/help/whatever other word you want to use for the other children because she was there for him. Her hours supporting him were set out in his EHCP and it would have been unlawful for her to support other children instead of him. The “why can’t your child share?” question is beyond belief.

It's not "instead" of, it's incidental help for others of a relatively brief nature when there is no immediate need from the service user.

If the ECHP holder has to have a person seated next to them every second in order to maintain access/safety/emotional support, then fair enough, the TA stays there

To go back, I merely asked why she cannot leave his side to assist others. There were a lot of indignant replies about how terrible (nay illegal) it would be for the TA to even do so much as "tie a shoelace" that belongs to a different child as their own child must have 100% support every second.

Now if that had been apparent from the OP, I'd never have had to ask.

In fact I'm actually surprised that given the severity of his needs that the parents of other children in his class feel that their child should have access to this TA. They are clearly in the wrong and the headteacher should make a polite but firm outline of different types of teaching assistant and their roles.

It's not "instead" of, it's incidental help for others of a relatively brief nature when there is no immediate need from the service user.

As others have said already, any child needing full-time 1:1 is highly unlikely to have any such instances of not needing 1:1 support during the school day. My son’s 1:1 support was constant, so that if his 1:1 LSA was on a break then a different nominated member of staff was with him. I believe this is a typical scenario for any child who has a need for full-time 1:1.

@CinnamonJellyBeans I have students with a 1:1 at secondary and their TA does exactly as you describe.

I have another students with a 1:1 who requires 1:1 at almost all times.

The OP's post wasn't originally about a 1-1 helping others. It was about pointing out how their child having a 1-1 doesn't take away resources from the rest of the class.

I almost feel like Cinnamon is arguing just for the fun of it.

My son has always had full time 1:1. He still has this at special school. Sometimes at special school he doesn't need someone to be right next him but they do need to be fully aware of what he is doing, his mood, body language etc at all times. Otherwise the risk is a sudden grab at or bite of another adult or child.
When he was in mainstream he was left unobserved and that led to other children being bitten and that was entirely the schools fault for using his lsa for another child. 1:1 support can include constant monitoring and you cannot do that if you are assisting another child.

@Drspouse have you asked the independent specialist schools whether they offer an individual and bespoke curriculum as past results don't necessarily indicate that the school can't or won't teach GCSE courses. Looking at dd's school past results indicate that very few GCSEs were taken but that would be the cohort they had at that time.
The current cohort have more children academically able so the last three years numbers of GCSE's taken have risen. They might not have the opportunity to take nine GCSEs but they are open to teaching to a child's interests and recruit for that purpose. So GCSE's at dd's scchool, bearing in mind five years ago there were no GCSEs sat, are Maths, English Lang and English lit, Triple award Science, Double award Science and GCSE Physics and Chemistry (for dd alone at present), Art, Citizenship and Music. Dd is also doing A level Maths again nobody has sat A level Maths previously. They also do B techs and OCN and maybe others but I don't know as that would be groups where dc were less able academically.

@hiredandsqueak the one we have looked at that's all-through says the DCs don't achieve exams due to their previous poor attendance or engagement. I seriously doubt they have the teachers for that range of subjects and if he's in a class where no others are achieving he's hardly going to be taught the relevant curriculum.

Should add the school teaches to one or two students at a time if there are only that many students able to sit the course so A level Maths, Physics and Chemistry dd is taught by herself, English Lit has four students, Art has two students etc

@Drspouse ah not the right place then for your boy. Sorry just an idea.

Teenpluscat I think you might be right.

mumofsend it is interesting DD is in class during the morning and out of class in the afternoon. I looked at a couple of primary SEMH ARPs, and one of the many reasons they weren’t suitable for DS1 was because the pupils were in the base during the morning core lessons and joined MS in the afternoon, when DS1 needed it the opposite way round. The reactions I received were as though that couldn’t be the case as no SEMH pupil would cope with core lessons if they couldn’t with non-core ones. They weren’t suitable anyway, neither is any secondary setting and DS1 has EOTAS due to no suitable school.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

It can't be fewer hours, as the TA must be available at all times as and when she is needed.

Cinnamon the hours the child needs is assessed and given by the LEA. Category A is full time. Category B is 25 hours and so on. Every child is different as is their disability or reason for 1:1. My child is cat A so has full-time 1:1, when the TA is on break another trained member of staff takes over.

Cat B children do not have breaks/lunches supervised generally - so they can run around, eat, play pretty much independently OR with the lunchtime supervisee (dinner ladies) knowing oh we have to keep a close on Joe bloggs....

Cat C ...that child may just have 1:1 in the mornings to ensure they (and the class) can work, but the afternoons are unsupported....IE they play and don't achieve much 'work'....

Does that make sense?????

@Imitatingdory that does sound very familiar. My DD can cope with core mostly because

A) the class is quiet
B) It is far more structured
C) she isn't as tired

But she struggles to cope with non-core as it is so much less predictable day-to-day and tends to be a lot more active and noisy. Plus lunchtime prior uses up a lot of her reserves.

I've definitely ended up finding in our area that realistically specialist is less able to meet her needs

I highly suspect KS2 will be her undoing, particularly UKS2 and by secondary age we will also be in EOTAS territory but for now she is happy and progressing