To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@spanieleyes that is LA policy that isn't the law. You should do yourself a favour and advise the parents to request a EHC needs assessment using IPSEA template telling them to put in a SAR to the school first so that they have all the evidence they need to send with it.

It is infuriating school staff blindly follow LA policy when a quick 30 minutes Google term clearly shows they aren't lawful or hold up when challenged.

Schools are schooled in LA policy and in my experience they don't bother to question it and then they wonder why they get EHCPs issued that are largely unlawful and don't come with sufficient funding. You could feel sorry for them because they are being shafted left right and centre but it infuriates me because it is so unnecessary and children suffer.

But if I don't or can't provide that, the LA say that the assessment has been completed and there is no evidence that the the level of support provided isn't sufficient to meet need. So we have to provide the evidence they require! Trust me, I don't want to spend all my time completing EHCP needs request forms that have no chance of getting through first stage so I provide the evidence the LA insist on.

Oh, and if a parent does request an assessment, we get exactly the same form to complete!

@spanielseyes you should fill in the IPSEA template yourself then as that is all that is needed to make a request. When it's refused you point parents to IPSEA, SOSSEN or Legal Aid and encourage them to appeal. If it's going to be refused because a twenty five page booklet isn't fully filled in you may as well fill in a one page letter and save yourself the work as the outcome is the same.

I fully agree with @hiredandsqueak. There's nothing stopping you being honest with parents, saying you think they will need to refuse. Provide them the evidence you do have (which only needs to be minimal). Doing the letter and saying they should appeal if refused. Save yourself a 25 booklet.

It's not the end of the world if it's refused at first request anyway, LA's routinely refuse to test to see if parents are determined to push. LA's lose 95% of appeals or 99% if in Derbyshire so obviously they aren't refusing on law based evidence they are refusing in the hopes parents will give in. Encourage and support parents to appeal at every stage if they have to.

@spanieleyes

Those that say you can just apply for an assessment-of course you can! But those that say its not quite as simple as that are also correct. This is the guidance for page 11 of the 25 page EHCP assessment request form we need to complete

SECTION G.1: Current Support Arrangements
Assess, Plan, Do and Review
All mainstream schools are provided with resources to support those with additional needs, including students with SEN and disabilities. Please therefore identify from the school's budget the targeted support provided for the child. This will be in addition to or different from that made available for children of the same age, for example, through Quality First Teaching.

You should indicate in this section evidence of a graduated approach and the current support arrangements over a minimum of three cycles of assess, plan, do and review.

So yes, we do need to prove what the notional funding has been spent on and we do need evidence of support over a period of time ( along with 24 other pages of information!) Otherwise the application wont even get through the first sift!

But if a child has SEN and it's clear enough that they have SEN that a parent is requesting an EHCP, then you should already be building that evidence and if you aren't, it's shameful. It's shameful to leave a child to struggle, or fail to document the support you are providing accurately.

My DD2 (diagnosed with ASD in year 7) managed to get 110 on her year 6 English SATs, with a huge amount of work from her teachers. She's now working at a level 1 GCSE grade in year 10. She's been badly let down.

I have a meeting on Thursday with a SLT link. If they impress me, I'll give them a chance. If not, I'll be doing a SAR and putting in an application for an EHCP, if nothing else to find out what school are actually doing for her, which I suspect is not enough.

@spanieleyes

Those that say you can just apply for an assessment-of course you can! But those that say its not quite as simple as that are also correct. This is the guidance for page 11 of the 25 page EHCP assessment request form we need to complete

SECTION G.1: Current Support Arrangements
Assess, Plan, Do and Review
All mainstream schools are provided with resources to support those with additional needs, including students with SEN and disabilities. Please therefore identify from the school's budget the targeted support provided for the child. This will be in addition to or different from that made available for children of the same age, for example, through Quality First Teaching.

You should indicate in this section evidence of a graduated approach and the current support arrangements over a minimum of three cycles of assess, plan, do and review.

So yes, we do need to prove what the notional funding has been spent on and we do need evidence of support over a period of time ( along with 24 other pages of information!) Otherwise the application wont even get through the first sift!

Actually, that may be what you are told to do, but when I applied for DD1's Statement, back in the day, I submitted a couple of letters from professionals and a letter from me. It wasn't down to me to prove DD1 needed a Statement, just that she 'might'. Same goes for EHCP needs assessments. All you have to show is that they 'may' need an EHCP.

Tbh the experiences of parents in our LA specific support group is that all requests for assessment are refused, sometimes LA even dream up some extra hoops or try to add on weeks before they will give a decision by producing a form that will start the process when it has been completed and returned and sometimes they advise that they should speak to school about GRIP funding for a year before applying again but for every parent who replies quoting their legal duty and an expectation they comply with that duty there is an about turn and the decision is almost always positive. I don't know anyone who had to appeal refusal to assess they usually give in before they get there.

@Lougle I wouldn't bother waiting put in the SAR and get the process started as soon as possible if a school has got to year ten and allowed a child to fail to make significant progress in all that time then little is going to change now regardless of their assurances. You also have to consider how your dd is going to manage the increased pressure that will be applied now, it was that pressure and the constant assessment and reassessment that broke dd despite her having full time support and an IQ of 162. She got the expected top grades in independent specialist anyway with none of the pressure applied.

DS2 (8) school have just applied for an EHCP for him. I don’t know the law on this at all, I have tried to find o it but it’s all very confusing (by design I’m assuming!).

There’s no way we would be entitled to any legal aid (is anyone these days? I wasn’t even entitled to it for divorce after DV!) so we can’t afford to take it to tribunal if we can’t get it pushed through.

I might be surprised and it’s granted - the school have been fantastic and we have a huge amounts of evidence and professional reports - but I know they just refuse on principle first time it seems.

Could someone please point me in the right direction of what the LA legal duties/responsibilities are, what the SEN law actually says, so that like PP have done I can write an effective letter if they refuse? I’m in Surrey and the school is an academy, if that makes a difference?

@ElvenDreamer my dc is academically able. OK so they work within the lower ability groups but this is a planned strategy in their EHCP. If they perceive work as being too difficult they will either a) point blank refuse to try or b) it's a flash point for some difficult behaviour. Usually the latter.

My local authority tried to refuse me an EHCP when I applied for it. They changed their tune very quickly when I asked for the mediation certificate so I could take them to a tribunal.

If you have a sendiass/parent partnership/SEND advice service in your local authority they can tell you how to go about starting the process. Depending on the relationship you have with your son's school/SENCO they may be able to tell you who the person is you contact.

@Rinoachicken

Try asking your local SENDIASS/parent partnership/SEND support. All local authorities should have one but often they are called different things. If you want, PM me your local authority and I can see if I can find the details for you.

Thanks @hiredandsqueak. I think I recognise you from times of old.

Boring story is that DD2 went to school 1 in year R. Fell apart in year 1, after class move, physically ill as a result. School HT accused me of FII.

School 2 in year 1. Fell apart in year 2, after class move. They tried nurture groups. Paediatrician saw her and said she was 'passive' but he didn't see ASD. SALT saw her and said she had x,y,z traits of ASD but 'they weren't affecting her'. OT said she scored very low in some areas, but high in others, so overall was average They tried nurture group but she fell apart when it was withdrawn after 6 weeks (as per policy). So I withdrew her and HE for 1 term.

School 3, year 3. They recognised her ASD traits and managed her accordingly. Did well with support in year 3&4 (mixed year classes). Year 5, she fell apart completely after a class change. School put in huge efforts, using pre-teaching to avoid the startled shutdowns, dictation and scribing, timers to produce a paragraph, etc. They realised she wouldn't pass SATs because she couldn't infer from text, so they taught her inference discretely, i.e., 'jumper means cold'. 110 in English SATs.

Year 7, move to secondary school. DX with ASD. She's had a generic SEN profile, but not much support. Little things like 2 minute early pass, seated near teacher, etc., Won't talk to teachers, won't ask for help, doesn't understand, hates school environment, can't stand being near people, cries for days before term starts.

SENDIASS often repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. They receive LA funding so ultimately toe the party line. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better IMO.

Rino start with reading the SENCOP and IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites. You don’t need representation to appeal, many self repping parents succeed. Here is IPSEA’s information on Legal Aid.

Lougle I wouldn’t bother waiting either. You have more than enough evidence to get over the EHCNA threshold.

@Imitatingdory thank you!

Yes would definitely use IPSEA or SOSSEN over Sendiass who are often LAs mouthpiece. If on Facebook Educational Equality are also trustworthy offering law based advice and support.
@Lougle yes knew you during the fight for my son, learned my lessons well to become the nightmare demanding legislation spouting parent for my daughter. Planning for next Tribunal and don't even have an amended EHCP such is my low expectation of our LA.

We viewed a local secomdary 2school who are actively discouraging children with any SEND from out of catchment from applying as their learning support department is 'over run' with children with additional needs according to their prospectus. They take quite a lot of children out of catchment. They have said they will try and contest placements through an ECHP out of catchment as they don't have the resources to cope. I was pretty stunned any school would put that in print! It worked however as we applied for the other local school - DS will need very minimal support - probably just use of a laptop and exam arrangements, but clearly wasn't welcome.

Sorry you've had a shit morning.
The first 6k a year is paid for out of the school budget.
It doesn't take away from other necessities and an extra pair of hands in the classroom is always useful.
People can be awful and ignorant

There are some schools with high pupil premium that use that funding for an extra TA (mostly in the early years)

In the local authority I work for, schools have to provide:
At least two cycles of APDR
Evidence of at least two outside agencies working with the child.
Scores in the 2nd centile or below in two areas.
Evidence of at least 10 hours support across the week.
You are also strongly encouraged to gain support from the LMG for your application, although I have got them through without this.

It's insane. It's completely illegal. But the LA have all the power, schools have very little in reality and have to play the game.

SENCOs in my experience are class teachers on top of SENCOing and don't have the time to be fighting the local authority on top of everything else they are doing every day.

In our LA we can apply for HLN funding, but there is no time frame for applications to be looked at, so you can wait two terms plus for a response. In the meantime you are funding out of the school budget.

I have never had a child with SEND excluded, we have gone above and beyond to support children with additional needs while fighting to get an EHCP sorted. It's a real challenge for schools.

Who do you all think the LA come back to and ask for evidence of need?

It's all well and good saying appeal, but if your appeal has no evidence or school support then it's unlikely you'll get what your dc need.

There's a lag (especially at primary), between support required, possibly diagnosis and EHCP. The funding for the support before the EHCP has to come from somewhere. Not saying it deprives other children, it doesn't, but it's not like you click your fingers and £46k appears.

@OwlinaTree You should use every resource you have to empower parents as that would be a far better use of your time as they have the power at the end of the day. Prepare support packs using the resources readily available through IPSEA and SOSSEN. Instead of jumping hoops for LA meet with parents, help them draft a letter requesting an EHC needs assessment using IPSEA template give them the evidence they require levels progress any interventions and behaviour reports. If assessment is refused support them to approach IPSEA SOSSEN investigate Legal Aid and encourage them to appeal. Give them statistics 95% of appeals are won by parents. Don't spend time jumping hoops use your time in the best way possible to get the results.