To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

I will look into that thank you. I've never been given any advice regarding this.

@Hercisback the threshold for a needs assessment is really low so you could provide minimal info to parents to get them over the threshold for assessment. Assessment would be based on a lot more than information from school it should include ED PSych, SALT OT and anyone that a parent feels should provide evidence so from services outside of school as well as a parents input. This would be the evidence that would determine whether or not an EHCP is issued.

If you appeal a needs assessment and you win, the tribunal rule that professionals carry out assessments like Salt, EP and OT. So they give the evidence.

Some things you really do need a specialist degree in like speech therapy to give solid evidence or a PhD to be a EP. Plus those assessments are then also not paid from.the school budget.

That's the difference in inforcement of legal duty and local policy. No senco however experienced or knowledgeable can carry out say a CELF or Wisc assessment. If your found to score very low on such tests and making negligible progress on that score then that in itself can be one of a variety of ways to trigger a ehcp. So it's not true that a appeal will just the LA asking the school what they think. The judge looks for hard evidence from professionals mostly Eps, slt and OT.

In appeal its down to the judge. Its not between the parent and the LA or the LA and school. The judge needs more than "well he looks ok to me" they can not take opinion from.either school.or parent on things like scores. They need solid proof.

In case of language how can even the most outstanding school rank speach against age levels and relative peers of the same chronological age without using a speach therapist? I have a science degree, I'm not to shabby on the IQ front but if I did a CELF who would take my word for it? No one. Because I'm not a speach therapist.

So it's not that black and white

And who sorts out the appointment with the Ed psych and SALT? These people don't (and shouldn't) act totally independently of schools.

There's a disconnect between the wording of the law and what happens in reality. This is because (shock) most schools want the best for the children that go there.

I think there is a degree of cross purposes here!
In my county ( and I stress that because each county will have different procedures)
A parent can request an assessment ( using either the model letters or simply a letter requesting assessment)
The LA will agree to complete every assessment ( because to do so would be unlawful and, as has been said, the level of need is set very low)
The first stage of the assessment is to require the 25 page application from schools- and similar from parents. This includes the need for prior support, use of budget, three cycles of review etc. This is PART of the assessment process. Schools can and will miss out the " request assessment" step and go straight to the assessment paperwork. Once completed, with supporting evidence, a review panel sits ( within the county SEND team) to sift through the part one assessments. Those that are agreed go on to the part 2 assessment. This is where the SEND caseworker meets with parents and school to complete the rest of the assessment, an educational psychologist is appointed to complete THEIR report. If the SEND team feel that there is not enough evidence to go on to part 2, the assessment is rejected at this point and returned to school/parents for stage 1 appeal- which means more evidence!
After the stage 2 assessment, the completed paperwork goes to Panel, where a multi disciplinary team assess all the applications made and agree/reject the application. Further appeal is possible if rejected.

So yes, the level to agree to assessment is very low and ( in my experience) never refused. It is the actual assessment which requires the evidence, the use of budgeted funds, the detailed assessment of support, the review periods etc which is what ( I believe) the SENDco's here are referring to!

@spanieleyes what sort of made up procedure is that? A stage 1 appeal being available after that initial meeting shows they didn't actually agree to assess at all. Once an agreement to assess has been made the LA MUST seek advice from all and if they decide to issue its a refusal to issue appeal. A big grounds for a refusal to issue appeal would then be that the LA haven't actually completed a needs assessment.

As a senco can I suggest you figure the system out and not whatever made up process the LA suggest they are using, because its complete and utter BS. Its worrying your post has come from a senco

And the agreement to assess is made on week 6. I suspect you are confused. When a parent sends a request they ask school for paperwork to help make the decision to formally assess. You don't need to submit anything at this stage if what the parents have sent is adequate to show the bar has been met and then just contribute during the following 6 week window. They can't just change their mind on agreeing to assess

It's so worrying how these SENCO are so proficient in spouting LA policy but don't bother to avail themselves of actual knowledge of the lawful process. It's also worrying that they believe that the schools input is golden when it's really evidence from SALT Ed Psych and OT that is key. My two got SSEN without having ever set foot in a school first, parents who home Ed secure EHCPs schools input isn't key,

My 5 year old got his EHCP without any school/nursery input at all as he wasn't in either. No bother at all. SALT, OT and EP all assessed.

My daughter's did have school's input and part of why it needed a complete rewrite was because school were apparantly medical professionals and their input was inputted as fact (no she doesn't have an attachment issue, no I shouldn't have needed to go to tribunal to get that removed and no it isn't a school's place to diagnose that).

@Hercisback the LA are responsible for arranging assessments and funding them that's section 6 of the code of Practice. You should perhaps get yourself a copy and read it. I'm astounded that you haven't already as you would know the answers then.

@hiredandsqueak I don't need to read it thanks, already have.

Again with the disconnect between law and reality and the difference in LA approach. The LA usually arrange for EP and SALT to come to school (in my area anyway). Obviously HE will be done at home.

The sad thing is that the parents who fight and understand the law get what their children need. There are lots of children that don't. How about we all join together and campaign for better funding?

Yes @Mumofsend completely straightforward for me too with no school to mess it up. DD's EHCP has nothing in it from her previous school it's written entirely from reports by SALt OT and Ed Psych.

Well as a SENCO you are in the best position to empower parents but you need to get a grip on the law first and stop listening to LA policy. You can't blame parents for sourcing knowledge for themselves when the alternative is to be at the mercy of school staff who haven't seemingly got a clue. You say you have read the code of practice? So if you have have you questioned the LA on why there is such a disconnect between that and the policy you have been schooled in? The CoP isn't something that LAs should be using to prop open a door or rest their coffee cups on it's the process that they and schools should be following.

Well,I must be doing something right because I've never had one turned down!

completely straightforward for me too with no school to mess it up
Sweeping statements like that help no one. There's an implication that all schools are set up to mess up EHCPs, that's not true. You've obviously had a bad experience but the combative nature of some SEN parents versus schools is tiring. Schools (on the whole) are trying their hardest with shit funding, no time to breathe and staff working well over and above their 'paid' hours. I know none of this helps your child but cheap pops at schools is unfair.

I'm not a SENCO and have never claimed to be!!

@spanieleyes probably because by your own admission you won't apply without stacks of unnecessary evidence. I'm sure many many more children should be assessed than your gate keeping allows.

So if you have have you questioned the LA on why there is such a disconnect between that and the policy you have been schooled in?

Our SENCO has and the LA are drowning too to be honest. Meanwhile schools still provide as much support as they can.

Yes! DS has been able to do cubs, but only because exdh volunteers as parent helper and basically does 121 for DS just so he can attend. To get him swimming I had to cut some costs so I could get a gym membership with access to their much quieter pool and much smaller swimming lessons. We are not well off - I'm a single parent and still trying to.build my career back up after being a sahm until Ex fucked off. I feel like I have to justify spending the money on gym membership but honestly it's been the best thing I ever did. Not only are both kids swimming finally, but it's a great way to spend time with them where they can burn off some energy without exhausting me too badly! (In comparison we have to walk for about 10 or 11km to get the same effect as 1.5/2 hours in the pool) Both kids have adhd and need the exercise to get to sleep.

Doubt I'll ever get an EHCP for DD, though I'll apply if it seems necessary. She's doing well in school and I can manage the meltdowns at home. At least her hyperactivity translates to ants in her pants rather than complete inability to function and sudden bouts of violence which is what got the school on board with DS's EHCP.

Anyway. Neurodiversity is a fun one to get help for if you're a ND parent whose tendencies go in the opposite direction from parsing legal text. That's all I was trying to say but got a bit carried away by the relief of being in a group of parents who 'get it'.

Sorry, that was mostly in response to @elliejjtiny

Actually I have a much higher percentage of children with EHCPs than the national average, so no, it's not through lack of applications.

I don't think it does have to be combative at all in fact I've had a pretty good relationship with all my childrens schools and SENCOs. That's not to say at times I've been frustrated by their lack of knowledge of the law but I recognise that it doesn't do LA any favours to have SENCOs clued up as it would cost them money. My gripe is always with the LA tbh.

My kids have sen and ehcps. My eldest is entitled to 1:1 which he has mainly got, with a few hiccups. I was peed off a while ago as the class were going on camp, Ds was not going for various reasons and they took his 1:1 support into the camp to Make up ratio numbers there and leaving Ds behind and putting him in another class with no ta. I kept him off school...

My youngest needs some degree of help but not 1:1. There 1 ta jn the class for at least 4-5 that need extra help as well as supporting other children and the teacher. Dd is the only one with an EHCP and isn't receiving the help she needs!

Also, there are only 4 kids in my kids school with ehcps (nearly 200 in the school) and 2 of them are mine. The school are refusing to apply for EHCP's. Mine only have them as they were applied for in pre school!

But @spanieleyes think how much more productive you could be if you stopped with the twenty five page booklet and only met statutory requirements? Surely it would be a better use of your time and resources to meet requirements rather than opt in to LA circus? If you are on Twitter take a look at Garry Freeman he is ex SENCO but produces lots of resources to help current SENCOs get off the the LA treadmill and use the law to get their pupils support.