To just let you know (re, SEN funding)

[theqentity]

That TA in the class that does 1-1 with the child that had additional needs is not funded by the school, but the LA, and a parent had to probably go to tribunal in order to get that level of support for their child.

What they are NOT doing is taking away from the school funding and the education of others. They are not there to support other children, although many do despite it not being in their job description.

Sorry, just the pass gag What's App group has really depressed me today.

@Soontobe60

Sorry, OP, but you’re not completely right. As a SENCo, in my last year our total budget spent on SEN was over £120k. The funding from the LA ring fenced for SEN was £75K. This included, amongst other things, covering EHCP hours. The first 12 hours of every EHCP was funded from the general school budget. The remaining hours were funded at an hourly rate equivalent to a TA2 post. We paid all our TAs working with EHCPs at TA3 rate. Some children with an EHCP do need a high degree of 1:1, but many also need support in pairs or group tasks, or even discrete monitoring in order to give them opportunities to practice developing their independence skills. This is often part of their long term objectives on their EHCPs. So yes, a TA may well work with a child on a 1:1 basis, but will also be working with a group or a pair of children. This does not mean they are ‘taking money’ away from a child who has an EHCP.

You need to read up on SEN law, what you're saying is particularly worrying, given you're a SENCO.

@Soontobe60 I really hope you are appealing those plans and making them more specific so you get the correct funding.

I've namechanged for this.

My dc is persona non grata at their school. A combination of a child who lashes out at anyone close to them with impunity. A full time 1:1- as in doesn't even sharpen a pencil without someone in arms reach, and 2:1 at 'high risk' times e.g. break. Yes it's funded, and yes if the amount of funding on my dc's EHCP translated into a wage it would be someone paying 40% tax.

You don't achieve this without one hell of a fight and some very frank and difficult conversations with the school. And the Local Authority. However I would still lay a tenner on short odds that my dc isn't going to make it to the end of the year without being permanently excluded. Unfortunately with my local authority this is the only way to go.

Which will delight the playground posse I am sure. My dc has been in the school over 3 years now and has never been invited to a party, tea at a friend's house, play in the park after school, goings on in the school holidays. I'm not stupid, I know they go on especially when photos get posted on the class WhatsApp group of the 'whole class' birthday party. And lots more stuff besides that has ended up with the police telling the chief instigator to reel their neck in.

So I will repeat what I told someone in the playground once. I will willingly hand over dc's funding, their support, their blue badge, the school car park barrier key and anything else they want if it means I get just one day when dc is like every other dc.

I'm so sorry that you are having such an awful time @stripesonmyscarf. I had similar when my ds was younger and it is soul destroying. Some parents see the extras as perks and want the same for their dc rather than seeing it as support to allow a child with needs to access an education.
FWIW my ds who had to sit with a TA at a table outside of throwing distance of any other class member including the teacher aged five won the Headteacher's award in year 9 (in an outstanding mainstream academy) for having behaviour and attitude to learning second to none as a result of some really good support in school.

Soontobe60 if the pupils’ EHCPs specify and quantify the 1:1 having the TAs anything other than 1:1 is unlawful.

Yes it's disturbing how many school staff have no clue about the law and blindly follow whatever LAs tell them. They allow themselves to be screwed over just as much as the send kids. If they clued themselves up they would have less send funding shortages!

@Imitatingdory

Soontobe60 if the pupils’ EHCPs specify and quantify the 1:1 having the TAs anything other than 1:1 is unlawful.

Yes, I agree. However, not all EHCPs state purely1:1 provision all the time.

Definitely @Stormsy my experience was that the schools don't have a clue and are shafted by the LA. It means that when they get a parent who knows the law then it gets really uncomfortable as the parent destroys myths they believe to be truths. They really don't help themselves, very different in independent specialist who are able to put a price on any service required not covered by the standard fees so for example charged LA an extra £8k to cover the costs of providing 1 to 1 support during dd's transition.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@Soontobe60 I really hope you are appealing those plans and making them more specific so you get the correct funding.[/quote]
Oh, don’t worry, I always appeal if we - ie the parents and other outside agencies think the EHCP isn’t providing enough, and we are usually successful in improving the provision. I’m also very good at ensuring the governors are on board with ensuring we cater well for SEN pupils. I’ve never had a child with SEN excluded as I absolutely believe that this should not happen and will fight their corner. I’ve battled with LA caseworkers to ensure children who’s parents want their child to attend a special school eventually get their wishes achieved.

It seems that in this thread there are some people who think that Senco’s don’t care about SEN, that don’t know what they’re doing and that are basically crap at their jobs. Even without knowing anything about them.

My county no longer mentions 1:1 support in any EHCPs, it now refers to " enhanced provision".

@soontobe60

"One LA I work in will not even consider assessment if we have not shown what provision we have put in place. We cannot force the LA to complete a needs assessment - we don’t have that power! I am very aware of the legal test. "

You can tell parents to appeal a refusal to assess though and then the tribunal can force them to assess. The threshold is so low its hard not to meet it.

@spanieleyes doesn't make it lawful.

spanieleyes such a blanket policy is unlawful, and if 1:1 is necessary parents should appeal.

Soontobe60 LAs can be forced to assess if parents appeal (only parents can appeal). Often LAs concede as soon as they see parents are serious about appealing. And the vast majority of those that do go all the way to a hearing are upheld.

You don't have to, you could advise the parent to appeal the refusal and preferably give the parents the evidence to satisfy the legal test so evidence that they have or may have SEN and have or may need the support of a plan. It's policy it's not law that's telling you that you must supply two terms of evidence. You can't force the LA to do anything because the parent has to appeal but you can point parents in the direction of IPSEA and SOSSEN or to check whether they are entitled to Legal Aid (The SENCo at dd's school had no idea that through legal aid parents eligible could secure independent assessments by SALT OT and Ed Psych and legal support to take the LA to Tribunal. When schools are struggling to get Ed Psych time such knowledge should be invaluable) so they can be supported to challenge LA policy.

I have tried my hardest to understand lots that is going on in this thread, and I'm utterly confused! To the OP, WhatsApp groups are the work of the devil, I'm sorry you've been made to feel that way.

If I may jump on your post to ask a question, pease forgive me, my son is ASD diagnosed, no EHCP, school are actually pretty amazing with him for the large part, I suspect he may need one for the transition to secondary. The sort of stuff his primary do just won't happen in secondary. The SENCO tells me he won't get one because he's not behind academically, quite the reverse in fact, and that the school have to prove they are spending 6k of their own money before it would even be considered. Is this right? Or not right? I'm quite confused now

@ElvenDreamer

I have tried my hardest to understand lots that is going on in this thread, and I'm utterly confused! To the OP, WhatsApp groups are the work of the devil, I'm sorry you've been made to feel that way.

If I may jump on your post to ask a question, pease forgive me, my son is ASD diagnosed, no EHCP, school are actually pretty amazing with him for the large part, I suspect he may need one for the transition to secondary. The sort of stuff his primary do just won't happen in secondary. The SENCO tells me he won't get one because he's not behind academically, quite the reverse in fact, and that the school have to prove they are spending 6k of their own money before it would even be considered. Is this right? Or not right? I'm quite confused now

This thread has been a real eye opener for me. I take My hat off to everyone fighting for support for Their kids, I know it must be utterly exhausting and frustrating at times- I think you're all amazing and Im sorry you're Being let down so badly

ElvenDreamer No it’s no correct. Apply for an EHCP yourself, IPSEA have a model letter you can use. The threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low - a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test or hoop the LA wish you to jump through such as spending £6k or being 2 years behind or 2 cycles of assess/plan/do/review is unlawful.

I have 2 DC with EHCPs, both are academically able.

Ds is academically able - he has an ehcp which provides him with 30 hours 1-1 support a week.

It’s a myth that only academic ability matters. Apply yourself. Be prepared for them to turn down the application for a needs assessment but appeal it.

No @ElvenDreamer you are being told a load of bunkum. The legal test is that to have a EHC needs assessment you have to show that a child has or may have SEN and needs or may need the support through a plan. Neither of my children have ever been behind academically d, they have always had support in school. DD has an IQ of 162 LA pay getting on for six figures for her support. It's great that the school are supportive of your child they would be even better if they helped you to formalise that support by supporting your request for an EHC needs assessment so that your child had the protection of the law and so that support wasn't dependent on the goodwill and willingness of the school to supply it.

Elven my Ds is academically able and has an EHCP.... although it's not much use at the moment.

When we applied for an EHCNA, Ds's Senco at the time tried to stop it happening. She warned us that if we applied she would tell the LA it wasn't necessary. She did exactly that and refused to fill in the form correctly, left most of it blank or wrote 'don't know' as answers. She also wrote in bold that all Ds's needs were being met and he did not need an EHCP. The LA did initially refuse to assess but changed their minds before we appealed.

Over eighteen months later and with a woolly and non specified EHCP, Ds no longer attends school and currently has no input at all. The system is brutal and I'm pretty sure LAs hope that parents just give up.

Those that say you can just apply for an assessment-of course you can!
But those that say its not quite as simple as that are also correct. This is the guidance for page 11 of the 25 page EHCP assessment request form we need to complete

SECTION G.1: Current Support Arrangements
Assess, Plan, Do and Review
All mainstream schools are provided with resources to support those with additional needs, including students with SEN and disabilities. Please therefore identify from the school's budget the targeted support provided for the child. This will be in addition to or different from that made available for children of the same age, for example, through Quality First Teaching.

You should indicate in this section evidence of a graduated approach and the current support arrangements over a minimum of three cycles of assess, plan, do and review.

So yes, we do need to prove what the notional funding has been spent on and we do need evidence of support over a period of time ( along with 24 other pages of information!) Otherwise the application wont even get through the first sift!

@spanieleyes that is LA policy. Doesn't make it the legal threshold. It is clear it isn't a requirement and in an appeal as long as the minimum bar has been shown to be met then an assessment must be done. The LA form is asking more than what they should be legally and it doesn't hold up when appealed because its unlawful.