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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Aibu to not like drag Queens?

999 replies

Draggedalong1 · 01/01/2022 12:04

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

OP posts:

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Couchbettato · 01/01/2022 13:00

@doorornottodoor

Drag queen fans - what’s the difference between black face and drag? Both mocking parodies of an oppressed group by oppressors for laughs. I can’t see the difference.

I agree but you'll also get a lot of people saying you can't compare it at all to race.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/01/2022 13:00

@AnyFucker

It’s sexual fetish made public. Aggressive, distasteful, demeaning to actual women.

Agree with AF.

GoatsAndBarley · 01/01/2022 13:01

I hate it. It's creepy and aggressive.

Shmithecat2 · 01/01/2022 13:01

@amnm

Drag queens aren't men dressing up as women. It's (mostly) men dressing deliberately in a way that goes against the gender norms imposed on men as a way of rebelling against society.

The queens on stage aren't pretending they're women.

So why do the vast majority wear prosthetic boobs and tuck?

SueSaid · 01/01/2022 13:03

There was a drag queen on Big Brother once and he seriously wanted to be called a female name when all dressed up in wig etc and a male name when in men's clothes. I understand (though don't agree with) the issue with misgendering with transwoman but drag queens?.

It is a bizarre 'act' and one that I hope in years to come no longer exists and people wonder how tf it was ever tolerated.

If women mocked gay me like this, mincing and doing parodies there would rightly be outrage.

SlashBeef · 01/01/2022 13:05

Growing up I loved drag. I was a huge fan of Ru Paul and really enjoyed that drag culture and sense of humour. Looking back I cringe a bit because now I see it for what it is, which is womanface. It wouldn't be okay if it was blackface so I'm not sure why drag gets a free pass.

bedheadedzombie · 01/01/2022 13:05

@Notimeforaname

I'm sure your friend is a lovely person but that doesn't make drag OK

It's not ok for you. Yes I totally respect that. It's here though and not going anywhere for the moment.

In fact it's only getting more popular.

I could never liken it to blackface at all, it doesn't compute with me.

But I understand some dont like it. That's life !

So what in your opinion is the difference between blackface and womanface? Or is it just your feelings?

Notimeforaname · 01/01/2022 13:05

Drag queen fans - what’s the difference between black face and drag? Both mocking parodies of an oppressed group by oppressors for laughs. I can’t see the difference

Not every drag performer is 'being a woman' some dress as men, some as aliens, some are just wearing garments and make up they enjoy designing or creating.
It's not just to 'be a woman' it's an expression of their creativity and a chance to perform on stage with the costumes and music they like. Some sing,some dance. Theres a lot more to it for drag artists.

But again, I completely understand some people hate it. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Couchbettato · 01/01/2022 13:05

@Missey85

I love drag show's! Their just a bit of fun and all of you posting about "woman face" is just stupid so I suppose you've never worn pants or male style clothing? Get the stick out of ya butts and just enjoy it for what it is

We've been oppressed for millennia and it took a lot of work standing up to the patriarchy so women could wear comfortable clothes like men could, rather than elegant, decorative, uncomfortable garments. Clothes don't have a sex. They have fit and functionality which might favour one sex more than another, but clothes are just clothes.

Drag is men dressing how they perceive women in an overly characturised way, calling each other girl, being overly bitchy. Fake boobs, skimpy dresses and a piss poor attitude are not what make women women. And it's offensive to think that it's plastered all over the media as comedy and just perpetuates misogyny.

MaryAndHerNet · 01/01/2022 13:05

I could never liken it to blackface at all, it doesn't compute with me.

Let's see...

A person:

Puts make up on.
Dresses up in a costume.
Overacts offensive stereotypes.
Mocks what they're pretending to be.

Yup not the same at all.

Mouseonmychair · 01/01/2022 13:06

Yanbu I don't like it either but the mock outrage about about everything and the professionally offended and disgusted upset me more. It's all very woke and I would hate to live in a Mumsnet world where everything is so woke and frowned upon that these things are actually banned.

Lockheart · 01/01/2022 13:06

I don't really think it's as simple as "powerful group aping oppressed group" or a sexual fetish, as some have said.

The history of drag is long and complex and irretrievably bound up with the oppression of homosexual men and male sex workers. To discount that out of hand is naive and ignorant. It has evolved of course, but I don't think that someone dressing up in drag is always without exception either mocking women or getting sexual kicks.

Some will (I don't question there is a nasty element and I can't stand things like Ru Paul's drag race) but there are many who do it as a form of artistry or because that's simply how they want to dress.

So I don't hate all drag. I hate some elements of it.

If anyone is interested there is a fantastic documentary made in 1990 called Paris Is Burning about the drag houses in New York at the time and the history of those.

heathspeedwell · 01/01/2022 13:06

I hate it. It's men punching down at women, so it's not exactly new or daring or creative.

Names like Anna Bortion and Miss Carraige show the contempt in which these men hold women.

No thank you.

mummymeister · 01/01/2022 13:08

What a relief to find I am not the only person who has serious issues with drag and all that goes with it. Its not the wearing dresses or the make up that I have a problem with but the false breasts, dancing in a supposedly sexualised way and the constant referral to each other as girls. if its acceptable why is there no male equivalent - women dressing up as men?

Bitofachinwag · 01/01/2022 13:08

@Notimeforaname

Oh we've lots of drag kings here in Ireland. A few that are well known on the scene.

And Perry, of Kevin and Perry is a woman parodying a man. Only watched that a few weeks ago . ''Awwriii missus Patterson '' 🤣

That is true. But Kathy Burke isn't using an offensive name, doesn't parody teenage boys any more than Harry Enfield does when he plays the Kevin character. The Perry character dresses like an average teenage boy. If drag queens dresssed like actual women do day to day I don't think a group of them would have featured on the BBCNYE programme last nigh!

MarshmallowFondant · 01/01/2022 13:10

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda

YANBU, they are a grotesque mockery of womanhood.

Exactly this. So, so offensive to women.

Lockheart · 01/01/2022 13:11

if its acceptable why is there no male equivalent - women dressing up as men?

There is - drag kings.

Notimeforaname · 01/01/2022 13:12

So what in your opinion is the difference between blackface and womanface? Or is it just your feelings?

Because a lot of my friends are drag artists and I've lived and performed around it for many years. They are not just 'being women' .

People often approach my friends and will say ''are you a man or a woman?' The answer is always..''I'm whatever you see. If you see man..I'm a man..if you see a pig, I'm a pig'' My friend does not think he is a woman on stage.

To him, he is creating a performance from all the things he love and enjoys, all the things that have inspired him from a child up to adulthood, all the things he has worked for over the years, his make up artistry, his dance skills his costume design.

So I cant see it as a ''mockery'' or somthing mean and nasty. Because I have never seen an ounce of that. Thats not what I have lived.

But again, I totally respect some people hate it . I just cant agree that the people I know are mocking or hating. That's all.

ginghamstarfish · 01/01/2022 13:12

Yes, it's horrible and grotesque, and it IS womanface.

LittleRoundRobin · 01/01/2022 13:12

Agree @Draggedalong1 I used to quite like them and think they were a lot of fun, but they are SOOOO ten years ago now. And yeah, they look terrible. They should be consigned to the history books. The whole look is grotesque.

heathspeedwell · 01/01/2022 13:12

Women dressing up as men is different though because men are not the oppressed class.

BrusselPout · 01/01/2022 13:14

Well trousers aren't men's clothes, they are just clothes. And someone wearing a pair of jeans isn't making a mockery of men.

To enjoy drag it would have to be enjoyable, but these days it is often a pile of misogynistic garbage

SparkleWhale · 01/01/2022 13:15

I like some drag. That is to say, I love the artistry and performing drag queens but I just don't understand the ones who sway on stage and lip sync.

I've seen some wonderful, funny, talented drag queens where it all feels like a show. I've also seen some who I feel are essentially parodies and caricatures that are extremely disrespectful.

PlanktonsComputerWife · 01/01/2022 13:15

Theatrical conventions die hard and I don't think there's any prospect of drag being shelved, even temporarily.

Blackface has only become frowned on very recently. I remember seeing a facepaint-assisted Othello when I was at secondary school, not so long ago! I daresay it will reappear when it stops being the fashion among the monied classes to pretend to care publicly about black rights.

Giggorata · 01/01/2022 13:16

I found some drag a bit misogynistic in the 60s and 70s, but some, like Les Dawson, came across as an almost affectionate portrayal.

It has now evolved into womanface, and seems to be the domain of trans people, performing exaggerated and counterfeit femininity.

As AnyFucker says: I do find it “ Aggressive, distasteful, demeaning to actual women.“

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