Aibu to not like drag Queens?

[Draggedalong1]

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

Blackface was performed by the prevailing sex (male) and the prevailing race (white) against the oppressed race.

Womanface is performed by the prevailing sex (male) and usually by the prevailing race (white) against the oppressed sex (women).

In both cases it is the males performing a mockery of an OPPRESSED GROUP whether that be race, or sex.
Men mocking black people.
Men mocking women.

What is the common denominator here? Men.

I Agree OP. A drag Queen came into my daughters primary school to tell the reception ages kids (4/5) a story about a boy who wanted to be a mermaid. This is now a thing - drag queens going into primary schools. (The head teacher is extremely woke)

@Jellykat

ClaudiaJ1, bugger off with your 'do you ever think below the shallow surface'.. Ive had many many jokes about fish from my gay mates, and give as good as i get, its humour love..

Can you give examples of the jokes that you make to your gay friends which are the equivalent to their jokes about women having vaginas which smell like fish?

@Jellykat

ClaudiaJ1, bugger off with your 'do you ever think below the shallow surface'.. Ive had many many jokes about fish from my gay mates, and give as good as i get, its humour love..

@Jellykat Ohhhh! How 'cool' a woman you are! Laugh along with misogyny. How proud you must be....

I note you've never addressed the names they have, like Anna Bortion , Miss Carriage and Molestia Child. Either you think they are sooo 'humorous' too, or you really are desperate to be seen as the 'cool girl' to fit in with the men.

I wonder what your view would be if you didn't have friends in the drag scene so didn't feel a loyalty or obligation to support it

I guess we'll never know.🤷‍♀️ The same as wondering how your thoughts would be if you had friends in the business.

As you're assuming I do/like things only because I'm obliged by others.. it leads me to assume you are that easily led and swayed by your peers so are judging me by your own standards perhaps.

I'm couldnt liken blackface to drag.

I'm definitely not blocking out reality . I understand the reality of it is, I like something and you dont. Thats all.

You're allowed to like or dislike whatever you want

It's always made my feel a bit sick.

Proper nuanced contribution there @Opaljewel

I like smoking, but I can absolutely see why other people don't, and in some case find it offensive or troubling when presented without comment in the media.

I find it really scary and threatening. Can't really voice why, I just do.

That's your self survival instinct kicking in.
Man+disguise+boundaries pushed=danger.

Some people seem to have switched theirs off though.

I think if it's a man exploring gender stereotypes it's fine, they're still so limited culturally. However the fake boobs feel like woman-face to me.

This defence of grotesque, sexualised, prancing horse parodies of women will hopefully be seen some day for the very slick gaslighting it is. The words 'Emperor' and 'naked' spring to mind.

I've seen threads on this before and just reflecting on my thoughts.

I studied masculine identity in the 18th century for my MA. This encompassed a lot of work on the Moll Houses. Spaces for homosexual men to meet - they were very risky.

I would say in this period drag existed as a way to subvert patriarchal identity. It absolutely wasn't to demean women. It was in protest to the strict male gender idiologies. It was joyful and liberating for the homosexual men who could be executed if caught. They would act out wedding ceremonies dressed in a vale - but this wasn't to mock women. It was idealised.

I think perhaps it's jarring now as it feels very different...

Its interesting, I never connected drag queens with women because most of the women I know don’t behave like that iyswim. I always associated it with “stereotypical” gay man behaviour like an uber parody of effeminate gay men. So drag queens haven’t ever really bothered me much, hate fish jokes though, they can fuck off with that shit its not funny its spiteful and woman hating.

Also don’t get the need to be reading to kids or having kids do drag, sure some kids will grow up to like/do drag but it feels like its boundary pushing in a sinister way. Those drag queen names are also just reflective of how much some men despise women “molestia child” is just especially sick.

I used to spend lots of time in late night bars and cafes in Soho (many friends in media and theatre) and often wound up having 2am breakfasts with coming off duty drag queens. As with anything and anyone, I enjoyed the company of many but some of those guys were genuinely nasty, spiteful pieces of work that could turn on a sixpence on each other and women caught in the crosshairs. The "business" is a place that is definitely not all inclusive and glittery feather boas.

It's also interesting at the massive double standards it uncovers.
I assume the thing that prompted this thread was the shambles drag Nye performance, where a gaggle of men in cartoon Britney outfits badly lipsynced and posed while a talented female singer sang unremarked in the background.
So my question is, what talent do they possess that means they were front and centre? Can we honestly believe that the woman singing couldn't have put on a corset, heels and fake eyelashes?

Think about the flack that female singers like Mariah and Britney got for not singing live. And they were lipsyncing their creation. These men on stage didn't even create the music they were singing to.

So what exactly qualified them for the limelight? We can't even be sure they did their own costuming etc.

I just feel jealous they can do make up better than me..... A fully grown female.

@CombatBarbie

I just feel jealous they can do make up better than me..... A fully grown female.

Oh, they'd like that. Womaning isn't about make-up.

I agree drag is womanface. I have disliked it ever since I was a young girl watching Kenny Everett doing Cupid Stunt on family TV. Flashing 'her' crotch and hoisting up the oversized tits was meant to be the funny bit. Yeah real funny. I cringed with embarrassment to think my brother was watching it next to me, I had always considered myself my brother's equal, but that was a real put down for a pubescent feminist in the making. How such a blatant pisstake of womankind was allowed let alone broadcast as entertainment I could not fathom. Modern drag is just Cupid Stunt turned into a competition. Real women don't go around looking so hideous so the concept at heart is the laughing at women by exaggerating women's characteristics. Women have breasts so lets do massive tits. Women wear makeup so let's plaster it on for the painted whore look. Let's see what man can pass as an overtly sexualised tart! Guffaw guffaw.

I love the PPs suggestion that us women create a parody of men show. The best impersonations of mincing gay men can be described as smelling something 'shitty' and let's name them Ivor Stretchedarse, or Viagra Balls. Then let's put the contestants on Weakest Link and make out it's all not just acceptable, but indeed perfectly normal.

Ive had many many jokes about fish from my gay mates, and give as good as i get, its humour love..

I too have been in such company. I consider it equally offensive to someone calling a black person the n word, said so and me and my humour got up and left.

I don't find them offensive though, the ones that I have saw have been amazing in wit and features. It's kind of like, I wish I could be as brash/unfiltered as them when heeding off unwanted male attention.

Not wanting to be controversial, merely playing devil's advocate..... but what about lesbians who are stereotyped to the "male" part of the gay relationship. It's surely the same principle, appearing more manly by way of haircuts, clothing etc...... Drag Queens just make it more fun by being able to be more "attractive" with make up and clothing.

It's another part of the women hating spectrum we're now in.

Women are being silenced. Everywhere. We are constantly being told to shhh. Stop complaining, move over, let the men dictate and define what is and isn't acceptable.

It is the same as blackface. Stop enabling this drip drip hate, women.

I get what you mean OP about the harsh representation. It does seem more in your face than in the past.

I hadn't given it much thought until reading a very similar thread on here a while ago.

It's kind of like, I wish I could be as brash/unfiltered as them when heeding off unwanted male attention.

Yeah, it's funny how the ones with dicks can be 'brash and unfiltered' and the ones without can't....almost as if there is some kind of, I dunno, patriarchy at play....

Yes I like dame Edna etc but yes I agree many seem aggressive and whilst it's funny or pleasing in other ways to the person themselves I'm not sure what they are getting at.

Being a woman is more than hair Andy nails and make up
Not that many women bother with these anyway any more.

@Flingingmelon

I think if it's a man exploring gender stereotypes it's fine, they're still so limited culturally. However the fake boobs feel like woman-face to me.

"They're still so limited culturally", what do you mean?