New Years honours list

[Neron]

Tony Blair. Honestly?
What are peoples thoughts

Who is "We" by the way?

Are you a two-headed snake or something?

The Chilcot Report was clear, it was just convenient to ignore it.

@Toktokboki

Oh ignore just realised he already is a Sir!?

He got an upgrade / promotion to a higher classification of Knight, evidently. Who knew?

Well if the Chilcot Report is clear does it recommend or make any suggestion of war crimes and if so by whom?

I presume not, otherwise we would have tangible legal moves by now. And in that case, labelling Tony Blair as a person who has implemented war crimes is meaningless. And powerless.

@Magnited It stops short for obvious reasons. What it does say is that he misled the British people in order to gain support for a war not sanctioned by the UN. That is damning enough.

[quote mobear]@Magnited It stops short for obvious reasons. What it does say is that he misled the British people in order to gain support for a war not sanctioned by the UN. That is damning enough.[/quote]
No. Stopping short is not damning enough to call TB a war criminal. You just cannot do that.

Stopping short is giving up. I don't back people who give up.

There's a petition on change.org to have TB's knighthood rescinded. It's reached over 40k signatures already.

There is obviously no appetite in government to pursue him for what he did but there is strong evidence to suggest he led us into war for reasons he knew to be illegitimate, and for that I consider him a war criminal, at least from a moral perspective. The invasion of Iraq was 21st century colonialism.

I don't agree with it, though there are plenty who have been awarded honours who would be above Tony Blair in those who should not have been honoured. Tory party donors, Iain Duncan Smith whose welfare reforms have been linked to suicides, for example.

@mobear

There is obviously no appetite in government to pursue him for what he did but there is strong evidence to suggest he led us into war for reasons he knew to be illegitimate, and for that I consider him a war criminal, at least from a moral perspective. The invasion of Iraq was 21st century colonialism.

Any chance you could point out which part of the 1991 War Crimes Act you think he has contravened?

@mobear

There is obviously no appetite in government to pursue him for what he did but there is strong evidence to suggest he led us into war for reasons he knew to be illegitimate, and for that I consider him a war criminal, at least from a moral perspective. The invasion of Iraq was 21st century colonialism.

In my view so was Libya's.

But - that is my view. Just a 'feeling'. Not much I can do with that.

@jgw1 I said ‘at least from a moral perspective’ for this very reason. I am not familiar with the legislation but often legislation is outdated and unable to cope with modern realities. Morally, to me, it is abhorrent to lie in order to justify war.

[quote mobear]@jgw1 I said ‘at least from a moral perspective’ for this very reason. I am not familiar with the legislation but often legislation is outdated and unable to cope with modern realities. Morally, to me, it is abhorrent to lie in order to justify war.[/quote]
So you don't think he is a war criminal in the sense that to be a criminal one has broken the law.

@jgw1 You’re really grasping at straws here aren’t you. As I have already said, from a moral perspective, I consider him to be a war criminal. Many things throughout history have been morally repugnant but still legal at the time.

I would rather see the whole system scrapped but as we're stuck with it for now I'm delighted to see Nazira Karodia recognised. A truly inspirational and lovely woman.

@WhatIsThisPlease

There's a petition on change.org to have TB's knighthood rescinded. It's reached over 40k signatures already.

Yep, that’ll definitely stop it.

[quote mobear]@jgw1 You’re really grasping at straws here aren’t you. As I have already said, from a moral perspective, I consider him to be a war criminal. Many things throughout history have been morally repugnant but still legal at the time.[/quote]
Then say what he did was morally repugnant rather than using a term which has a very specific meaning and you do not know whether or not it applies.

Glad so see that David Beckham is not on the honours list, can you imagine the crowing and posturing from "Lady Beckham". Greedy family with far too much money. Why doesn't he do a Marcus Rashford.

I was pleased to see Adam Hills in there, and Martin Lewis. Blair, not so much, but such is life...

@TheWernethWife - it was quite unpleasant to see some years ago - what David Beckham had said re various activities - I paraphrase - to get himself a knighthood , whilst charging lots of expenses . I do not mind but he was a bit blatant about it. I suspect Wills will give him one as they are friends but just shows that some people can be a little cynical. Don't give a hoot about his wife, am sure she is lovely.

@jgw1 If I think that morally he is one, then I will say so. That is my choice. His dishonesty led to the loss of countless innocent lives and him being honoured in such a way is insulting.

[quote mobear]@jgw1 If I think that morally he is one, then I will say so. That is my choice. His dishonesty led to the loss of countless innocent lives and him being honoured in such a way is insulting.[/quote]
So if I think that anyone who drives dangerously fast outside my house is attempting to murder me, then I can call them such. Fair enough.

@jgw1 That is a laughable analogy.

[quote mobear]@jgw1 That is a laughable analogy.[/quote]
So we only get to call people criminals when they have broken no law, for some particular laws?

Could you supply a list of those laws.