Casual racism or AIBU

[Kooksadooks]

Hello. I have a lot on my mind today but hope you are having a nice New Years Eve…
We (me, DP, MIL, FIL, DS ect) were sat around the TV over Christmas period.
The Channel 5 advert featuring Anne Bolelyn played by black actress Jodie Turner-Smith comes on and MIL starts complaining that she ‘doesn’t understand all this’ and ‘Anne Bolelyn wasn’t black’ and doesn’t understand ‘why white people cannot play black people’…
I bit my tongue, I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think, also not wanting to cause drama over Christmas but AIBU to feel uncomfortable at MIL’s comments?
I mentioned it to DP afterwards and he agrees with MIL

@TrishM80 Ben Kingsley isn't white 😂

Anne Boleyn and the changes her relationship and daughter brought to England and Scotland are pretty pivotal in British History.

Martin Luther King didn't exactly have a small impact either.

Different stories. Both interesting. Both important.

I’m Chinese so not white and endured horrendous racism when at school in the 1970’s. It is ridiculous having a major historical figure played by someone who is clearly a different race.

I hate this sort of virtue signalling because it isn’t actual racism and it detracts from actual racism.

TrishM80 - Ben Kingsley's real name is Krishna Pandit Bhanji and he is of Indian descent.

@SingingLeaf

Never noticed it all that much in British society tbh.

But people make SO much of virtually nothing now to "virtue signal" themselves into outa space. I think I find that more annoying.

Witness: Benny Hill is so "sexist" now you get warnings if you watch current re-runs. Yet the most abusive bestial kind of pornography gets a free pass!

The same with an actor or politician who touched a woman's knee under a table 20 years ago. Yet the worst kind of pornography goes uncommented on. In fact people think its cool to express and promote their "kinks" be it S&M, threesomes blah blah on MSM, even Mumsnet "Relationships" pages as kinda acceptable and cool (not vanilla which is the worst kind of sex, apparently!).

P.S. Anne Boleyn wasn't black. Anymore than women were blacksmiths in 17th century England. I think people should be more involved in creating the present than misrpresenting the past. Just sayin'

This last bit ^^ all day long I think people should be more involved with creatingthe present than misrepresenting the past

Absolutely agree with this the part it, the past is the past we should be ashamed by some of it stand by some of it learn from all of it but BUT we can't change any of it

@JakeyRolling

It’s actually racist to give minority and female actors the crumbs off the table, because it implies their own stories are not worthy of being told. It’s not racist to call out this nonsense.

This!

I've loved adaptations of Wuthering Heights and Oliver Twist with black characters but because they're fiction the characters could easily be any ethnicity.

Portraying historically white people using a different ethnicity is tokenism. Personally I'd rather hear the stories of historical black figures - there was a good Harriet Tubman film recently for example

I attempted to type out my opinions but this really describes it so succinctly.

To give actors and actresses with the talent of individuals like Jodie Turner Smith roles like Anne Boleyn which have been done to death is insulting.

Oh here's another infamous white person but she's being played by a black woman. Boring.

I would rather see the investment of a multi-million pound series in retelling the story of influential POC's that are not household names that have been lost to history. That's representation.

Isn’t it really insulting to infer that a black person at that time could live a life of luxury in England as the Duke or Duchess or Princess of Whatever where no mention was ever made of their heritage because everyone was really accepting and colour blind then?

I haven't seen the program, but I doubt you are supposed to think she is black. You are supposed to think she's white, and just mentally filter out the skin colour of the actor playing her.

I think the problem is expecting this to work on TV with a mainstream audience. People who go to the theatre are used to focusing on what matters and not worrying about missing or wrong background details. TV-watchers generally expect accurate representations of reality.

(Although an exception to this was Chernobyl, which unless it was done in Russian by Russian actors, was always going to require something of the audience. I recall that they deliberately decided to let the actors use their natural accents, rather than have them speak in comedy Russian ones.)

@endofbluenight

Witness: Benny Hill is so "sexist" now you get warnings if you watch current re-runs. Yet the most abusive bestial kind of pornography gets a free pass! The same with an actor or politician who touched a woman's knee under a table 20 years ago. Yet the worst kind of pornography goes uncommented on

This is completely true . If Benny Hill was the worst thing we had to contend with re. attitudes to women, we'd be laughing.

The point about Benny Hill's 'characters' was that they were pathetic usually. I am of that era but never enjoyed his shows. They weren't funny as far as I was concerned.

I don't think it's necessarily racist. Some people care a lot about visual accuracy in films and TV (there are people who complain to Points of View if a telegraph pole can be seen on a distant hilltop in period dramas.) My sister and I were fuming when they stopped making Daniel Radcliffe wear green contact lenses in the Harry Potter films, and stopped making Emma Watson's hair bushy (we were 12 and 13 at the time before anyone comments). Whereas others don't care so much about the aesthetic aspects.

I wouldn't agree with a white actor playing a black character either.

That said, I do understand the argument for giving opportunities to Black actors and all the other arguments, so I wouldn't be writing to points of view about the Anne Boleyn thing, but I would find it jarring.

I think we have to remember that for decades nearly all films and TV shows were written, produced and directed by white men. It is getting better but still lots of room for improvement. My point is that for so long white stories have dominated and therefore opportunities for black actors have been far fewer than for white. So it's redressing the balance a little.

It does feel like laziness on the part of producers and writers. Like they are thinking: rather than going to the trouble of finding and writing new stories, let's keep going back to the same old stories we know are popular but it's ok because we can colour blind cast them so we are being diverse.

It's also this idea that audiences won't be interested in other stories, that it is too risky to try new things so let's stick with what we know sells. It's pretty insulting to audiences. It is similar in Hollywood. The whole idea that a film can't be sold with a non white lead (and then Black Panther showed that to be nonsense).

I would rather see the investment of a multi-million pound series in retelling the story of influential POC's that are not household names that have been lost to history. That's representation.

I would love to see a film that depicted the reality of American slavery, where there is no romanticising of the plight POCs faces back then. Depictions of slavery usually centre around the few who escaped slavery (eg "12 Years a Slave") or slaves who fought back (eg "Birth of a Nation" - the modern one not the D. W. Griffith one). Most POCs of the time just trudged through their lives with nothing remarkable happening to them.

They are difficult issues. I thought it was a very unusual and nice surprise that the BBC's English Scandal programme had correctly all white characters and it just felt accurate (as indeed it was) rather than some contrived attempt to change things from how they were in those days. Sometimes programmes go to far in a nation that is only 3% black and only 12% non white to put a higher proportion of people in it although I can understand why they do. Eg Northumberland where I am from is 98% white and vet the Vera detective show has more BAME characters than is normal in rural Northumberland which can make the story line harder to believe, whereas the London cop shows I like of course have a racial mix which reflects London's ethnic make up.

Mind you the scandal programme annoyed me when the Duchess said it was me was that It was I. Even I say It was I and someone of her class and in those days would always say It was I.

I'm tired of historical adaptations anyway (They've been done to death), though there will always be a place for it.

I'd quite like to see more fictional films/shows made with Black characters playing all sort of roles (besides slaves and the stereotypical ones. They've been done to death too) in any setting and none of these "But Black people weren't such and such at that time" objections. We don't have talking dragons or zombies either but we still enjoy those films without worrying about how possible it is. Why is it such a stretch then for a Black person to play any fictional character in any time period?

For me, it isn't about what is/isn't possible. Fiction is fiction. When done right, I can enjoy it for what it is.

I'll also love to see more Black writers, directors, etc given a chance, especially Black women. It's tough out there to get your foot in the door, let alone get the opportunity to have your work considered for merit.

Yabu - your MIL may be racist bit her view on this issue is not at all racist.

As others have said theatre is way ahead of tv and film in this area really. I am signed up to a site that lists all new casts for shows and they are currently about 60% black casts in most cases particularly in straight plays.
However this representation hasn’t happened with the south or East Asian community and it’s very clear on tv and film. I can’t think of any tv programme I have ever seen where the lead was East Asian at all.
I watched ‘yesterday’ and had the realisation that having an Asian person as the lead where that wasn’t in any way the point of the story was incredibly rare. My friend who is chinese and whose children are mixed race says there is almost no representation of her race in the media.

I think the point is that AB has to be one of the most well known females of the time. We have countless books/articles/films/TV about her. We have had the whole story of what she did or didn't do retold countless times. It really was a pivotal point in the history of England and to retell it inaccurately is just going to annoy somebody. As I said earlier it's like pretending that Henry's ill health had no bearing on his behaviour and representing him as a healthy man when he was rotting from the inside out.
If anyone takes the time to retell the story then just make a good job of it, and have AB as a slim, dark haired woman, with some sex appeal.

I agree with you MIL and I'm black. If a White person played Martin Luther King, there would be an uproar.

It really was a pivotal point in the history of England and to retell it inaccurately is just going to annoy somebody.

Historical dramas regularly retell pivotal moments in history inaccurately. This time it just happens to be visibly evident even to people with only a passing knowledge of the period of history.

This isn't racist. It's the same as saying you wouldn't want a child or a pensioner to play AB, I don't understand anyone saying it's racist; it's factually incorrect as she was white! Anyone saying that people wouldn't say it the other way round is absolute garbage! If a white person played Martin Luther King or Muhammad Ali, the exact same comments would be made.

There was absolute uproar when Cheryl Cole was announced to present the R&B music podcast because she is white.....

Good aby excuse to have a go at the MIL on here isn’t it? Even though she is correct.

It is not racism. I’m a who’re female. I’d not expect to play the part of MLK in keeping with ‘equality and inclusivity’. It’s ridiculous. What we now have is racism where every advert is either an entirely black cast, or mixed races cast, but can’t be entirely white ina demographic where 99% of the population is white. Thinking that your MIL is racist is part of the problem.

I don't agree with race blind casting, certainly not in historical roles, but I'd be more accepting if it was applied evenly. Because anyone not White can play a White role, but no one White can play a non-White role... Well there's a word for it, something beginning with R...

The fact that you think anyone pointing out the injustice of this is being casually racist shows just how much of a number the Western brainwashing media has had on you.

God any.

White!!! WHITE!! I’m not a whore!! I here did that come
From!?!

@Nivealove

I agree with you MIL and I'm black. If a White person played Martin Luther King, there would be an uproar.

But you cant tell Martin Luther King's story without referring to his race. You can tell Anne Boleyn's story (albeit inaccurately) without mentioning race. Which is why some people have said they are not directly comparable.