To ask what the psychology is behind virtue signalling?

[chrisevans]

Is it a low self esteem thing?

Is it that the person is actually a good person but likes recognition?

Is it trying to be inspiring to others?

I know people get annoyed by it, the whole I just donated ..... announcements but what is it about the donator that they are trying to achieve or what is the psychology behind it?

Personally you carry on telling us about your good deeds and good for you, but I am interested to know thoughts on the above.

Whoops. Accidentally posted my question onto this thread .... Apologies. Please ignore ... New to mumsnet

You're not talking about virtue signaling, you're talking about altruism. And showing it to others.

I'd argue that the ACTUAL psychology, rather than a load of all bollocks about narc traits and self esteem is simple. Animals exhibit reciprocal altruism in certain circumstances. They have to be group animals (herd or similar), be intelligent enough to remember altruism, benefit from it etc. Vampire bats are an example. They share blood if another bat doesn't feed. But they won't share if the other bat has been a dick about it in the past. Of course the act of sharing has to be observed by others.

All that means that we practice reciprocal altruism and for that to work, it has to be seen. I mean we've all said something like, 'normally I'd help but what's he ever done for me?' at some point.

"VS is about expressing a public opinion that shows what a good person you are."

Where do you draw the line with this though? Are we not meant to spread awareness to others on environmental and humanitarian issues?

Not everyone reads books, watches documentaries, keeps up to date with the news, has travelled/experienced other (better?) ways of living, is in touch with the realities of the world/life, thinks critically, understands poverty and nature conservation...

Why should it be seen as VS if you are like the above or have these lived experiences and want to share it with others on SM? I'm not on SM much, bit I'd rather see informative and interesting posts than the piffle I've seen posted over Xmas

What is the psychology behind being negative about the contributors in our society?🤔

Meh I’m starting to see more posts about being anti virtual signalling, anti PC, anti-woke than the opposite recently. It’s as if being anti these things has also become a form of virtue signalling.

Another type of virtue signalling is competing to be the one who screams and howls the loudest in condemnation of someone or something 'bad'. Often the someone/something is genuinely bad, but screaming and howling has fuck all impact on either the bad thing or those harmed by it. Similarly, competing to be the most upset by some tragedy that didn't affect you personally - posting lots of shit poetry and crayoned rainbows all over your social media after either a celebrity death or some awful natural disaster on the other side of the world. Particularly if you lace it with a lot of blubbering about how other people are not taking any notice of this tragedy even when it's been widely reported.

Wanting to be seen as good by others seems always to have been a thing, the drive to be recognized. Maybe what that entails differs in different cultures, in some it's being brave, in another donating blood, whatever. But there is that part of the Bible that tells people to pray and do good deeds without making a fuss about it to show off, so I would say it's a behaviour that has been around a very long time.

That being said, I also think for a lot of the people who are young enough to have grown up with their whole lives online, there can be an obsessive and unhealthy need for validation from others. Sometimes it seems like they don't think what they do is real if it's not recorded and posted. Many also seem to imagine that somehow they are doing good by posting.

I must admit I do often post something on Facebook when I give blood, although I hardly ever post on there generally. I always hope I might inspire someone else to do it too, that’s the main reason. I was too scared of needles to do it for years, so I always make a point of saying how easy it was and how well I was looked after.

The type that use the terms like ‘daily fail’ and ‘brexshitters’. And ask wide eyed questions with faux dismay like ‘why does anyone vote Tory’. They’re basically saying that they are so clever and advanced in their thinking they cannot possibly comprehend why everyone else hasn’t caught up to their level.

But there's the thing: I truly cannot understand how anyone could vote Tory or read The Mail.

That does not mean that I think I am 'clever' or 'advanced'.

If I were, perhaps I would understand it more?

@CatsArePeople

Depends what. Rescuing animals, cleaning up beaches... cool. Feeding the homeless on camera - bloody embarrasing. And don't even get me stated on pronouns in twitter bio or syringe icons.

Syringe icons?

I'm not convinced everyone who posts charity donations is
driven by an unhealthy psychological need. Let's pretend however that the person is doing it excessively over lots of random charities and is needy for attention.

In Transactional analysis theory virtue signally for the praise would be seeking out 'strokes'
Sm is rife ground for lots of TA 'games people play' and 'scripts' analyses.

In CBT it's be harder to describe in snappy sentence on here or guess at as much more complex framework and individualised, but basically would come from a core belief, with some negative thinking of some type (eg about not being a good person underneath unless others tell you) combined with the physiological effects the person gets from hearing that praise (elevated heart rate, increase in SNS activity,...)

You know the person could be posting to encourage others to donate as peer pressure works a lot in charity donation (behavioural psychology) and they might just be highlighting the charity as a good cause.

Look at how many people did the ALS iced water challenge, it raised lots of awareness of MND (ALS) and money for the charity in US. That's all behavioural psychology in action through sm ..!

In answer to the OP, that's why I love it when people make anonymous donations. I just think it says more about the person to do a good deed, on the quiet.

However, in my opinion, there are certain issues that I think should be highlighted, and people should be shouting from the rooftops!

But giving some unsuspecting homeless person half of your cold McDonald's cheeseburger, in return for notoriety, is not the one.

@CaptainWentworth

I must admit I do often post something on Facebook when I give blood, although I hardly ever post on there generally. I always hope I might inspire someone else to do it too, that’s the main reason. I was too scared of needles to do it for years, so I always make a point of saying how easy it was and how well I was looked after.

That's great Captain and it works. Friends on Fb are more likely to donate blood because of your posts Especially if you add in any brief positive details about how easy it was and when, where they can or a link to click on.

How many people photograph themselves giving half a Big Mac to a homeless person ? On the other hand wasn’t Jacob Rees Mogg photographed opening a food bank or something? The irony ! He is exactly the type of person to bemoan folk having progressive values.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Meh I’m starting to see more posts about being anti virtual signalling, anti PC, anti-woke than the opposite recently. It’s as if being anti these things has also become a form of virtue signalling.

I totally agree with this.

What a lot of people describe on this and other threads, is not virtue signalling based on the definition provided here. Sometimes people genuinely do good things for good reasons, sometimes they tell people for good reasons. Random acts of kindness, kindness boomerangs have achieved brilliant stuff on an individual level. Charities have grown from one person making a difference and sharing that on social media inspiring others to do the same.

‘Virtue signalling’ is falling into the same category as ‘do gooder’ an insult to throw at people if someone holds a mirror to your own inaction.

If you’re referring to people who literally do nothing but change their profile picture on social media when something worthy is trending but do nothing else about it, calling it virtue signalling is a misnomer which validates it. Call them what they are; nob heads.

How many people photograph themselves giving half a Big Mac to a homeless person ? On the other hand wasn’t Jacob Rees Mogg photographed opening a food bank or something? The irony !

It's not particularly ironic, is it? Both are 'giving' for an ulterior motive..

I think if you’re doing something nice for genuine unselfish reasons you should feel good enough without shouting about it. However if the good IS being done and they want to shout about it - at least the good is being done. The worst is if they’re making all the noise and not doing it.

I often wonder about this. I work with a woman who does a lot for charity. Her husband and kids are the same. In fact, they do a lot of project type stuff in general, not just the charity things. Good for them, but every single thing they do is trumpeted about on social media for head pats. It’s annoying and not very self aware, BUT, charities benefit from them. So they are doing good things, but they appear to be doing good things for the wrong reason (to boost self worth and self esteem by gaining recognition rather than because of actually caring and wanting to make a difference). At the end of the day, the charity still wins so that’s great. But it does make me do an internal eye roll sometimes. What’s wrong with doing a nice thing but not mentioning it to anybody?

@Andoffwego

I often wonder about this. I work with a woman who does a lot for charity. Her husband and kids are the same. In fact, they do a lot of project type stuff in general, not just the charity things. Good for them, but every single thing they do is trumpeted about on social media for head pats. It’s annoying and not very self aware, BUT, charities benefit from them. So they are doing good things, but they appear to be doing good things for the wrong reason (to boost self worth and self esteem by gaining recognition rather than because of actually caring and wanting to make a difference). At the end of the day, the charity still wins so that’s great. But it does make me do an internal eye roll sometimes. What’s wrong with doing a nice thing but not mentioning it to anybody?

Maybe reflect on why you think they shouldn’t tell anyone and why it makes you roll your eyes?

I wouldn’t think it’s down to low self esteem - rather the reverse. People who are their own best fans want everyone else to see and appreciate how amazing they are.

These days, I find the expression “virtue signalling” is mainly used as a lazy way to invalidate other people’s moral choices.

Can’t come up with a coherent objection to someone making different moral decisions to yours? Just call it virtue signalling- if you can suggest they’re only doing it for reasons of self-interest and status, you don’t have to bother addressing the actual substance of why they’re doing X and you’re not.

The number for people who use the expression as defined at the start of this thread is pretty small, and even then people tend only to use it for virtue signalling that they don’t like. (Standing outside your house clapping like a seal for the NHS while continuing to vote for a party which undermines it might be a good example of virtue signalling, but funnily it’s not one you hear much about,)

My sister and her partner post things to reach other & reply to each other’s posts. I often think ffs just speak to each other instead (they live together) but then the whole world wouldn’t know the amazing things they are up to.

I'm much more interested in the psychology of seeing someone post about charity or social justice or just doing a nice thing, and immediately sourly labelling it as "virtue signalling" (which is a term originally coined by the extreme right).

I'm much more interested in the psychology of seeing someone post about charity or social justice or just doing a nice thing, and immediately sourly labelling it as "virtue signalling" (which is a term originally coined by the extreme right).

Yep. Typically used to insult anyone who openly challenged racism/misogyny/homophobia - women who are unhappy at receiving rape threats or white people who don’t enjoy racist jokes.