Can they fire me? Long term sick leave

[CanTheyFireMe]

Name changed for this as other posts are identifying. This post probably is too but I guess I'll deal with that if necessary. Posting here for traffic as I'm massively panicking.

I've been on long term sick leave from work, signed off by GP for the last ~3 months. I also got signed off for about 2 months late 2020 and had a phased return to work. I work an office job for a large company. For context the pandemic hit the company hard and they are struggling financially, I don't know if this affects my case.

I'm diagnosed with mixed depressive and anxiety disorder but I think I have ptsd due to a traumatic event in my early teens. However when I was diagnosed I wasn't really believed/taken seriously so I don't think they considered a PTSD diagnosis. Psychiatrists I've seen since and mentioned PTSD which is why I bring it up. I have horrible nightmares, anxiety, frequent extremely low moods and suicidal thoughts, difficulty sleeping, my concentration is totally shot. Plus more but that's the basics. This has made it impossible for me to do my job which requires full concentration all day and is kind of stressful. I've been trying to get therapy for years but for multiple reasons all my attempts have basically failed in the end. e.g. One provider kept sympathising with my abuser, I honestly think things have been worse since that. Waiting lists are months and months long.

I switched antidepressants recently and had been starting to feel a bit better, able to do a couple of bits around the house every couple of days and my anxiety has been a lot better. I don't think i could do my job yet but I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel I think. Work also said they may be able to pay for some trauma therapy for me and referred me to occupational health.

The occupational health appointment was this morning, I missed it. I hadn't been able to get to sleep until a couple of hours before the appointment and I slept right through my alarm. I completely forgot the appointment was today in my panic about not sleeping. I can't believe how fucking stupid I am honestly. My boss is very busy so I've tried rearranging it myself but I don't know if I can do that or if they'll need another referral from my boss. I don't want to piss off my boss because I feel like I'm relying on their good will to keep my job right now. Obviously I let my boss know, over message, and apologised about 5 times.

OH sent me a summary of the missed appointment which included the questions my boss wanted them to answer in the assessment. It was things like, can I return to work in the next month, will I need more sickness absence. This has massively compounded my fears after missing the appointment and now I'm feeling like I'm going to get fired. I don't know if I can return to work in the next 4 weeks or if I'll need more sick leave in the future. I need proper good therapy which I don't think I'll be able to get any time soon if work don't pay for it. The antidepressants are helping so far but it's not enough. I don't know if we'll be able to survive on just DP's salary and honestly I don't want to do that to him. I'm already a shit partner with my depression, I'm useless. And I love him so much. I already don't earn very much as work have been holding off a big payrise until I'm back - if they'll even still give me that anyway - which is why I can't afford the therapy but obviously one person's salary is a big difference. We're young and I'm not qualified to do anything but my field. I don't think I could cope with getting a new job right now. And I'm scared how losing my job would affect my mental health even more.

Sorry this post has been a long rant I wanted to give the details. Basically I've fucked up by missing this appointment and just generally being so ill and I'm terrified I'm going to lose my job. Can they even do that? The doctor signed me off sick so I thought I'd be okay but now I'm not so sure. I'm spiralling so much already and I'm so scared. Is there anything I can do to show willing? What would you do?

Thank you so much for anyone who reads this.

Thanks for the advice everyone. To answer some questions, I've been employed more than two years. I have already contacted OH to try to reschedule and apologised profusely. I'm on waiting lists for help through charities but it all takes a very long time. I will be able to do my job again in the future, at least I'm 99% sure I will once I've had some help. I could do it before it's just since covid things have massively deteriorated. Of course this isn't what I wanted to hear but at least the frank replies can prepare me a bit for the worst possibility. I'll probably stop checking this thread now for my anxiety's sake but thanks to everyone who took the time to read and reply.

Also I'll check if I'm eligible for benefits, I'd be surprised if I am since they're difficult to get from what I've heard but I'll look into it

How long have you been in your job??

Why do you think work might pay for your therapy?

Looking after your employees is one thing, paying for therapy whn its nota work- based issues I think i unlikely

The few months she’s been off are piecemeal in the context of a career potentially lasting 50+ years

Most people don’t stay with the same company for 50 years though.

Just before you go, oh will understand you not getting the phone call and would probably try to contact you again. Do the trauma therapy, it's wonderful that work have offered this and it shows they're keen and willing to work with you.

Coming at this from the angle of an employer, it's incredibly difficult to keep a role open when you've got no idea if and when an employee will come back to work and if they're going to be able to do the job when they do. Technically you're still costing them money to have on their books and if they're in financial difficulties that's not sustainable.

ACAS are useless with advice - I'd book an appointment with an employment solicitor, their advice is far more targetted.

Talk to Acas. Talk to the Dr to get some therapy and speak to the Dr about following up you potential ptsd diagnosis. Start making a plan for what will happen if you get fired. Consider applying for Pip.

Sorry to hear about all you have been through.

Your employer can fire you if you are incapable of doing the job, which includes incapability through ill-health. This is true, even if you have a disability (though the process will be longer) so do not believe anyone who tells you otherwise. This does not mean that they will fire you though.

I am an employer. We have successfully supported many employees with mental illness back to work over the years. However, it can be an intense process that involves a lot of input from the employer's side - you are not just managing that employee, you are managing their whole team, which has to adapt to their absence. As an employer. you don't want to do that (beyond your legal obligations) for someone who is not truly committed to coming back. I have to be honest - you missing the OH appointment would be a huge red flag for me.

I don't know if we'll be able to survive on just DP's salary

It would be worth putting in a claim for PIP, if eligible, you could still receive it even when you do go back to work. It can take quite a while for it to be processed -I know someone who waited 9 months to be awarded it! Hopefully they will have worked through a bit of the backlog after lockdown by now though.

There is a quick self assessment here to see if you would possibly have enough points, the forums on this site may be useful too.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip-test

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/

@BoodleBug51

Coming at this from the angle of an employer, it's incredibly difficult to keep a role open when you've got no idea if and when an employee will come back to work and if they're going to be able to do the job when they do. Technically you're still costing them money to have on their books and if they're in financial difficulties that's not sustainable.

ACAS are useless with advice - I'd book an appointment with an employment solicitor, their advice is far more targetted.

Actually a solicitor isn't a bad idea. Do you have eap with work?

It’s another worry on top of everything else isn’t it op.
I think if you’re trying to get better, engaging with your manager and occ health - ask for a later appointment if that helps, and doing what you can to get back t work that will all work in your favour. Sometimes though you just aren’t well enough snd your health comes first op so look after yourself first and then the rest will follow.

I am recently back to work after 11 months off, heck of a time and I was worried my illness would be career ending however I’m back and it’s all fine I engaged, I kept up with mandatory training and anything else I needed to do and just kept the boss in the loop. It’s a worrying time, I was on half pay for so m which is hard as a single parent but you will cope, speak to your husband qnd get his support in case you don’t go back. It might be you take a break and get a job elsewhere when you’re strong enough.
Hope it all works out op

With the sleeping, in future set numerous alarms
I have overslept/slept through many times but I've solved it by setting alarms every 5 mins, 10 of them if needed!

Your employer can dismiss you on the grounds of ill health as long as the various steps through OH, sick leave etc have been followed.

OH are there to help first and foremost, but also to help determine capability. For your own peace of mind/progress, try your best to engage. Wishing you all the best, anxiety is an awful thing.

Your work may have insurance that kicks in after 6 months. I would be entirely truthful in your situation. Sorry you are struggling. Unfortunately you cannot expect your employer to hold your role open indefinitely particularly if you are unable to say when you are likely to be fit to work. Permanent health insurance is much more common as an employee benefit these days though and employees are not always told of its existence.

Would you say the same thing if OP was off sick recovering from an operation, or treatment for a physical condition like cancer?
What a ridiculous thing to say! OP has already said she is not. She is also not a member of the armed forces on duty, a member of the RF, a public figure, or a foreign national. Anything else you would like her not to be?

@MintJulia

Check what your contract says. Mine have always said that after six months, company would review suitability of appointment.

If you are too ill to do the job, it is unfair to expect your colleagues to carry you for more than that.

You aren't useless, don't put yourself down. Have you thought maybe a different job would make you happier and less stressed. Change is always stressful but can be the answer.

This ^

I can only re-iterate, please read your contract of employment

It also might help to speak to your Trade Union rep or a solicitor specialising in Employment Law. You can usually get a half hour free consultation from most solicitors.

It depends a lot on the type of job you do and the company you work for. If there is no prospect of someone being able to return to work in the foreseeable future, it is not unreasonable for the employer to begin dismissal proceedings: there is only so long it can be sustainable to pay an employee who is not at work while also paying someone to cover that employee's role (I used to have some involvement with education-related HR: schools with already-tight budgets often had to dismiss employees for long-term sickness because they could not pay two salaries for one job indefinitely).
If it's a large organisation with reasonable turnover (and you are good at your job) they might complete the dismissal process but agree that you can apply to return when you are better.
They will have to prove that they have attempted to make reasonable adjustments to allow you to return but, even if you have a disability or other protected characteristic, they can dismiss you if you are not fit to do the job and unlikely to be fit enough for a long time.

If you are unable to fulfil the job requirements and this is a long term issue then the job should be offered to someone who will actually turn up and do it.

I’d look into disability benefits ASAP. I think that your work status doesn’t affect them so no need to delay. If you can claim I’d also seriously consider looking for some private treatment. It’s expensive but if it allows you to work then it will absolutely be worth it.
I think your current problem is that you had extended sick leave, a phased return and now another long sick period within a year. If you can show that you’re obtaining some intensive treatment/ something different to before they may be that bit more likely to keep you on. This is just a personal opinion but I think you should do everything possible to retain your current job as it will be more difficult to get a new one. Even if that means borrowing some money from your family/oh or taking a debt (only if you can repay) to obtain some better treatment.

If you are incapable of doing the job you were hired to do and no suitable redeployment opportunities exist, then yes, you can be dismissed on capability grounds.

Missing a meeting your continued employment depends on because you overslept is not going to help you.

Start looking for a job you can do

Re-book the OH appointment

Start asking about redeployment

@Silvershroud

Would you say the same thing if OP was off sick recovering from an operation, or treatment for a physical condition like cancer? What a ridiculous thing to say! OP has already said she is not. She is also not a member of the armed forces on duty, a member of the RF, a public figure, or a foreign national. Anything else you would like her not to be?

Op is off sick with complex mental health issues including PTSD. This is just as legitimate as a physical issue which prevents her from working.

Saying her current employer should sack her because of her current inability to work is a bloody nonsense.

As for the rest of your post, it doesn’t make any sense, so I’ll decline to respond.

Also could you consider reducing to part time? Would working days afternoons only be a viable option?

Op this is a really quick reply having not RTFT but I'm not sure if they are legally allowed to ask you about when you will return if you are covered by doctor issued sick notes? As thr sick note technically starts the belief of the doctor ak.a. A medical professional and not yourself? So i don't know if you should get advice before answering. Do you want me to try to send you some organisations that may be able to advise x