MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

Open dialogue is fine
Endless negativity and talking like autism is a scourge on society is something else

Dealing with autism is hard. Having autism and dealing with how other people perceive you (often wrongly) is hard.

Support is fine. This isn't support its assassination of an entire neurotype.

I have a son who has Aspergers and it infuriates me that the go to for a thread about an arse of a husband is 'is he possibly on the spectrum?'
No!! people are just arses, they don't need excused with a label.
Also kids can just be badly behaved and not 'on the spectrum'
We need to stop excusing poor behaviour.
My son is the most gentle, easy going man, his sisters adore him and he is very respectful and kind and I am enraged at this attitude that anyone with poor behaviour/ rude etc is 'on the spectrum'

Most autistic people here are suggesting an open dialogue to help understanding between different neurologies
Open dialogue? You mean like the thread you want shut down?

Or can you only comment in your open dialogue if that open dialogue is positive? So any open dialogue that suggests a negative lived experience is shut down?

I'm not sure that's the definition of open dialogue

As I understand it, the rules on the support thread are clear.
People can post about their individual experiences with their spouse.
They are not permitted to extrapolate/generalise to 'all people with autism ...'.
I think that is reasonable.

@HypocrisyHere it's an anonymous message board, MN hasn't cultivated anything, there are many posts that are reported and don't get deleted, in this case they rightly see it as inappropriate and have deleted- hardly allowing anything to stand. What you mean is that you'd like anything referencing autism to be deleted unless it meets the self proclaimed gate keepers approval?

@Caramellatteplease

Most autistic people here are suggesting an open dialogue to help understanding between different neurologies Open dialogue? You mean like the thread you want shut down?

Or can you only comment in your open dialogue if that open dialogue is positive? So any open dialogue that suggests a negative lived experience is shut down?

I'm not sure that's the definition of open dialogue

These threads are the antithesis of open dialogue! They are actively against any autistic poster commenting unless it is to agree with them that autistic partners are hard work.

So thank you for making my point - you’re absolutely correct these threads should be shut down as they only allow selective stories from one side and try to portray them as representative.

Most autistic people here are suggesting an open dialogue to help understanding between different neurologies

That absolutely isn't the case.

These threads are the antithesis of open dialogue! They are actively against any autistic poster commenting unless it is to agree with them that autistic partners are hard work

What they're probably against are people wading in to tell them they are wrong, or that their feelings are invalid or that they're horrible people for being human and feeling how they feel.

I dont usually comment on threads about autism as they quite often end in a row.

thank you for making my point - you’re absolutely correct these threads should be shut down as they only allow selective stories from one side and try to portray them as representative

So instead we are only allowed positive threads from one side who try to portray them as representative?

Perhaps we should by your logic shut down any thread that mentions autism? You cant have any that are negative because you dont feel welcome commenting and therefore it isnt representative. But you definitely cant have any positive threads becaus I can't comment on them because my lived experience isn't positive and therefore a positive thread isnt representative either.

Amusingly that feels compatible with theory of mind and autism....

What you mean is that you'd like anything referencing autism to be deleted unless it meets the self proclaimed gate keepers approval?

Trying to twist what I’ve said and come up with ridiculous comments like this is a bit pathetic.

In fact go back to my opening post where I say

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted

I would simply like to get to a stage where people are more informed about autism, it’s nuances, it’s impact on the autistic person and that they realise it’s not appropriate to talk about us in such a negative way. But equally we need to listen too.

(And btw I have been rightfully criticised for my lack of knowledge on OCD - for which I have apologised - so I am on a learning journey too. I was aghast that I’d offended people with my ignorance - I would simply like the same courtesy extended to autistic people after people make unfair and incorrect and sometimes downright offensive comments about autism)

@HypocrisyHere

What you mean is that you'd like anything referencing autism to be deleted unless it meets the self proclaimed gate keepers approval?

Trying to twist what I’ve said and come up with ridiculous comments like this is a bit pathetic.

In fact go back to my opening post where I say

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted

I would simply like to get to a stage where people are more informed about autism, it’s nuances, it’s impact on the autistic person and that they realise it’s not appropriate to talk about us in such a negative way. But equally we need to listen too.

(And btw I have been rightfully criticised for my lack of knowledge on OCD - for which I have apologised - so I am on a learning journey too. I was aghast that I’d offended people with my ignorance - I would simply like the same courtesy extended to autistic people after people make unfair and incorrect and sometimes downright offensive comments about autism)

Yes I get that and agree, but the impact on others around them is also important, and that's what you are seemingly against being discussed when actually a forum like this is one of the only spaces people feel they can. What you want is people with autism to be fully centred and anyone who offers a different perspective to be shut down unless its deemed acceptable, whatever that means. As you know autism is a wide spectrum and absolutely there isn't a one size fits all definition which is partly why it's challenging to inform people comprehensively.

Also I agree about ignorant comments being unacceptable, but the threads you reference aren't full of that.

@Caramellatteplease I refer you to my previous post. And stop misrepresenting what I’m saying to suit your narrative

I think your snide and patronising remark about theory of min and autism is despicable- attempting to use someone’s disability as a way to invalidate them. I’m glad it amuses you - but it absolutely minimises the every day lived experience of autistic people living in a neurotypical world.

I have a son and a husband who are both autistic. Those support threads were invaluable to me. Some of DH's behaviour sure can look like arsehole if you don't know he's autistic. There's no malice behind it and it comes from his inability to have theory of mind and each situation needs to be hard coded in if that makes sense. Before we had kids I just thought he was 'quirky'. Once we had kids it all started to fall apart and it was a very dark time as he really was unable to support me. It was also hugely confusing. Only when DS got his diagnosis and the paediatrician asked us to take a questionnaire did it all start to make sense.

I have a son who has Aspergers and it infuriates me that the go to for a thread about an arse of a husband is 'is he possibly on the spectrum?

The worst thing about these posters is that the OP invariably pounces on this as the explanation for the behaviour because it then gives it a label rather than just poor behaviour. Hence the cycle continues with everyone a diagnostic expert

I personally think the partner with autism support threads are acceptable provided they are strongly moderated

@Caramellatteplease

I was not in validating you because of your autism.

I was saying you were invalidating other people's needs because they were in conflict with your own.

You do not want anyone to discuss negative lived experience of autism because you find it upsetting and invalidating to your sense of self.

Essentially they are not allowed to have feelings in conflict with your own needs.

Yes. That is very much a problem I've found with many people with autism. The theory of mind is not there to appreciate why they have those feelings and why they might be as important as your own.

That doesn't mean it invalidated either party's feelings, but that it is a problem of living with autism. But I'm not allowed to discuss that right?

Very true, this is why most threads involving autism end in a row

@Fiftythreepercent

I have a son who has Aspergers and it infuriates me that the go to for a thread about an arse of a husband is 'is he possibly on the spectrum?

The worst thing about these posters is that the OP invariably pounces on this as the explanation for the behaviour because it then gives it a label rather than just poor behaviour. Hence the cycle continues with everyone a diagnostic expert

I personally think the partner with autism support threads are acceptable provided they are strongly moderated

Yes don’t accept any self diagnosis or armchair diagnosis nonsense

@Caramellatteplease

I was not in validating you because of your autism.

I was saying you were invalidating other people's needs because they were in conflict with your own.

You do not want anyone to discuss negative lived experience of autism because you find it upsetting and invalidating to your sense of self.

Essentially they are not allowed to have feelings in conflict with your own needs.

Yes. That is very much a problem I've found with many people with autism. The theory of mind is not there to appreciate why they have those feelings and why they might be as important as your own.

That doesn't mean it invalidated either party's feelings, but that it is a problem of living with autism. But I'm not allowed to discuss that right?

Another one who thinks autistic people are selfish and incapable of empathy. Brilliant.

OP there are some really helpful posts here. People have been extremely generous and patient at explaining other perspectives here. I hope you can attempt to take them on board.

Another one who thinks autistic people are selfish and incapable of empathy. Brilliant

Where have they said that? Oh they haven't and you are misinterpreting and projecting!

@HereticFanjo

I really dislike seeing people attempt to shut down that support thread. It clearly gives people a safe space to talk about their lives and concerns. It's eye opening for many people.

A safe space? Or is it really encouraging them to 'other' their partner?

Very true, this is why most threads involving autism end in a row

It's why living with autism can be highly conflictual too

To give a real lived example DS might want to cross a road, I dont want him too. He might not see why my need outweighs his. The fact theres an oncoming car isnt relevant to him he needs to get to his destination...

Most NT people can balance theirs and other peoples needs better. They do so millions of time a day. Sometimes they might choose to put their needs first, sometimes they put others first. It's a ongoing balance often unconscious.

But you can guarantee they definitely would put their need to cross a road above some one wanting them to stop them. They are way less likely to end up in front of a moving car as a result.

I understand every interaction is a negotion and a compromise.things that would be normal are already a compromise to DS. If he could be sat alone playing computer with food arriving 3 times a day and me somewhere in the house he is utterly happy in life, everything else (except for disney and theme park visits) are a compromise . Given the need to compromise so much, there is little understanding as to when to "compromise" and when to not. If he is in a dentist chair, why is his need for painkillers more important than the dentists need to get on with it. It's easier to say nothing despite the increased pain (Yes weve been there too).

One day I might be arguing with DS why he shouldn't walk in front of a car the other why he might want to tell the Dentist hes in pain and pause the filling...

And on the whole I'm dealing with these obvious compromises, as you become an adult the compromises become more challenging and complex, especially when they involve money or your own slightly fragile sense of self.

OP you may not see why these "negative" threads need to exist. They do not support you and cause you pain. Why should you compromise your needs and pain for others needs and pain?

That is totally part of autism and ironically why such threads are necessary

[quote Camperbann]@Itsnotover so instead or responding to one of the many points the poster has raised, you instead just ask what about x as a gotcha? This is the bigger problem on these boards to be honest, people being minimised who also have experience of it but obviously not the right type of experience. A cancer support thread sounds like a great idea as it goes, it is really hard knowing how to best support someone whilst keeping day to day family life going- and there is a woeful lack of in person support and it can be hard for people to feel comfortable about talking to family and friends who directly know the person. An anonymous forum sounds like an ideal place someone can be honest and seek support.[/quote]

You're sidestepping the point I am making.

If the person with cancer was behaving differently because of their cancer (for example if it was affecting their brain) I really don't think that it would be seen as reasonable to be posting about how hard done by the partner was.

Here's a thought, if NT people find it hard living with an autistic person, why don't you try talking to them instead of moaning about them on the internet to other NT people ? Why don't you try to understand their disability better? If you don't want to do this then maybe you don't love them and you should leave?

I have had many NT partners who ask why I do something, I explain it to them. Then 2 weeks later they ask the same thing! They cannot be bothered to understand or even remember yet we're the ones with no empathy and poor communication?