MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

There is a place for discussing those issues, absolutely. But these threads are a pile in, anyone who has any kind of autism diagnosis is the enemy and its an echo chamber of who is the most hard done by because of these evil autistics.

It's not somewhere strategies are suggested. It's just "omg they're horrible".

@Itsnotover there seems to be confusion as to what the thread’s for.
‘Support’ as in moaning about how hard life is for the carer is valid whether it’s autism, cancer, wheelchair, whatever . Of course it’s not the person’s ‘fault’. But being a carer is hard. What do you want them to do, shut up and put up with no respite??
What IS the problem is people armchair diagnosing ‘autism’ whenever there’s twattish behaviour or assuming that all autistic people are the same. The thread itself IMO is not the issue.

R.e the teenage neighbour thread I didn’t see that but I do remember a thread with noisy kids - the majority of replies were ‘shut up and don’t complain, kids could have SEN it’s none of your business’.

@BishopBrennansArse

There is a place for discussing those issues, absolutely. But these threads are a pile in, anyone who has any kind of autism diagnosis is the enemy and its an echo chamber of who is the most hard done by because of these evil autistics.

It's not somewhere strategies are suggested. It's just "omg they're horrible".

For some reason I’ve never seen this thread! O_O

Most of the behaviour described on it seems to be very challenging though and the people sound frustrated. The ones who are in happy relationships( like me) aren’t going to be on it

@BishopBrennansArse

There is a place for discussing those issues, absolutely. But these threads are a pile in, anyone who has any kind of autism diagnosis is the enemy and its an echo chamber of who is the most hard done by because of these evil autistics.

It's not somewhere strategies are suggested. It's just "omg they're horrible".

From reading it seems many posters have tried strategies but have reached the point they no longer want to bend and break to meet their partners needs at detriment to themselves, seems fair enough. I haven't read posts on there claiming that everyone with autism is the enemy, I think there's a lot of projecting and being keen to be offended and proclaim how terrible anyone who doesn't want to base their life around someone else anymore is.

Ok, would you think it reasonable posting threads about husbands and wives with cancer and how unpleasant that is?

I have a very close relative with Cancer and yes I do have people I talk to about how unpleasant it is.

I talk about how sad I am they have it and that they won't be around forever, that their chemo it turning them into a person I barely recognise and that the fact the are dying and quite rightly want to live as full as possible seeing as many people as possible but that often brings it's own dilemmas re covid and doing what's best for my CEV son.

I still love her but yes I do have a fucking good moan that cancer is shit and dealing with my relative can be damn hard atm. So yes I would consider that reasonable too.

Again, posters ignoring reasonable posts and just keep talking about how awful a thread that isn't actually very active is.

@duvetdayforeveryone

Message deleted by MNHQ

So all the autistic people in happy relationships with nuerotypicals don't count then?

I hate it.

The attitude that arsehole=autism has crept into the site and into people's heads which is really wrong.

On every thread about a male partner being a dick you will have at least one person and normally more saying is he on 'The Spectrum'? Sounds like he is autistic...

When the op has not described anything that is an indicator of autism.

It pisses me off so much. The ignorance about autism and the damage this bollocks is doing to how people with autism are seen.

Aaand now apparently we should all stick to our own kind and not inflict ourselves on the normals.
Great stuff.

@IncompleteSenten

I hate it.

The attitude that arsehole=autism has crept into the site and into people's heads which is really wrong.

On every thread about a male partner being a dick you will have at least one person and normally more saying is he on 'The Spectrum'? Sounds like he is autistic...

When the op has not described anything that is an indicator of autism.

It pisses me off so much. The ignorance about autism and the damage this bollocks is doing to how people with autism are seen.

Similarly the opposite is true, tonnes of threads say oh best not say anything because they might have ASD, just put up with it in case. Self/assumed diagnoses cut both ways on here, both equally annoying.

I don't agree people with autism should only dare others with autism, that's ludicrous, as long as both are happy that's all that matters.

@IncompleteSenten

Aaand now apparently we should all stick to our own kind and not inflict ourselves on the normals. Great stuff.

One poster has said that, but I'm sure many will feast on it to prove a point.

I really dislike seeing people attempt to shut down that support thread. It clearly gives people a safe space to talk about their lives and concerns. It's eye opening for many people.

@JeeezLouise

The posters on that second thread are distressed because they are married to a partner who struggles with cognitive empathy and social communication to a degree where their emotional needs are not met and they feel invisible and invalidated every day.

That thread is the only place they can discuss their problems with other people who understand. Can you try putting yourself in their shoes and try to see it from their perspective at all?

That thread is not about you, or your relationship, but you are determined to take away their support group because you think your feelings are valid and theirs aren't?

Yes this is much better than my post.

The only example that I agree with is the depression one as this is an illness which does need to be treated. But your other two examples are shocking - having OCD or. Physical disability is a fundamental part of the person - they are not “wrong” - they are not illnesses and their characteristics would have been present when the couple initially met!. So the decision should have been made then, as you got to know the person, if you could “cope” with the neurological or physical difference

By posting this, you’ve shown that you have limited understanding of the very thing you’re posting about.
I developed OCD as a direct result of having PND following the birth of my first child. I absolutely needed treatment for this condition. It is an illness, not a state of mind.
My sister had a stroke when she was 45, she became physically disabled as a result of an illness. Her husband didn’t marry someone with a physical disability. My brother’s partner was diagnosed with MS in her late 30s. A disability she wasn’t born with. It is an illness that means that she is now disabled. My BIL and brother both need support in order to deal with the changes in their relationships these illnesses have brought.
I could go on listing myriad examples of people who have developed an illness or disability in later life.

I hope so because it's an important point.

Feasting on it. Your choice of language is interesting and illuminating. Did you choose that term to be dismissive of people responding to a rather shocking post? Saying people with autism should stick to their own kind is no different to saying, for example, black people should and I'm quite sure if only one poster on a thread said that, it wouldn't be suggested that if posters respond to it, they would be 'feasting on it'.

@duvetdayforeveryone

Message deleted by MNHQ

This is the sort of stupid post that’s unacceptable! DP’s parents are perfectly happy thank you.

I can understand the vitriol on the support thread because the people there are dealing with more challenging things. Unlike me, my DP emotionally supports me, we get along etc etc. If I was still with one of my autistic exes who shut down and refused to speak to me for days, or the one who didn’t care when I was crying and depressed I can imagine me posting on that thread angry at them and the world.

But no, there are several flavours of autism and not everyone is the same so off with your judgement.

*also DP is autistic and I have adhd so that’s one for you

Yes there are undoubtedly some ignorant posts, but as the daughter, partner and mother of people on the spectrum, yes my partner and mother's ASD does affect me negatively, most seriously, their issues with empathy.

Can you understand that being in a loving relationship with someone who lacks empathy could create issues?

Personally, I have ADHD and I understand how there are ways in which I am hard to live with, and that my partner or DC might feel the need to talk about this.

If you can't understand how living with someone who struggles with empathy - as is the case for many autistic people - might affect the other person negatively, then may I respectfully suggest it's possible you are also struggling with empathy and you need to listen to those affected.

This is my life, and although I love and advocate for the autistic people in my life, there are times when they treat me in ways that would be considered cruel, were they NTs. Are you saying I should just STFU about this? Or are you saying lack of empathy is not actually a typical trait of people with autism in your opinion, and I should reinterpret their actions towards me as deliberate cruelty?

@Itsnotover

Oh FFS. I thought those ableist people whining about their other half on those threads had taken their unpleasant ableism elsewhere?

I feel very sorry for their partners.

Imagine having threads where people are complaining what a bind it is being married to someone confined to a wheelchair.

Those threads make me mad. The last time I tried to politely point out the unreasonable ableism, this guy piped up with ‘oh you sound exactly like my wife’

MNHQ - why are these indefensible threads still being enabled by you?

Serious question here. Why should a thread about being married to a wheelchair user be banned if it is the lived experience of that person? I imagine it would be full of empathy and probably strategies for making life more manageable.

If DH or I needed a wheelchair- which may well happen as we get older - of course it would change our relationship and things we took for granted before. If someone offered some empathy and gave advice on how to make life easier we would seize it with both hands.

@IncompleteSenten

I hope so because it's an important point.

Feasting on it. Your choice of language is interesting and illuminating. Did you choose that term to be dismissive of people responding to a rather shocking post? Saying people with autism should stick to their own kind is no different to saying, for example, black people should and I'm quite sure if only one poster on a thread said that, it wouldn't be suggested that if posters respond to it, they would be 'feasting on it'.

Yes I chose feasting because many other posts are ignored, and one singular person posts that and you know that's all a lot people will focus on rather than the well thought out posts people have made based on their lived experience. Although I disagree whole heartedly with the poster, who for all we know was being purposefully goody anyway, you have already made a post which comes across as though you've taken it as that's the resounding point of view when it's absolutely not.

@duvetdayforeveryone

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Fucking hell. This statement shows how brazen people can be on here about their ableist views on autism. MNHQ - this is what results from your continual condoning of autism-bashing.

Most autistic people here are suggesting an open dialogue to help understanding between different neurologies.

@crackofdoom

One of the best books I read at the start of looking into whether I could be on the spectrum was a book by Sarah Hendrickx.

Women and Girls with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Understanding Life Experiences from Early Childhood to Old Age www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1849055475/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_68G8JM4MEK8B7CC4SP7K?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Fucking hell. This statement shows how brazen people can be on here about their ableist views on autism. MNHQ - this is what results from your continual condoning of autism-bashing.

You mean the post they quickly deleted?

I truly believe people with autism should only be with/marry people with autism.

Pile of crap. If neither of you can advocate for yourself how is that better?

I'm not entirely convinced I'm neuro typical, I found a lot of peace in my soul with ExDP who I'm not entirely convinced was neurotypical either. 90% of the time we spent together
I think you'd probably describe as the sort of content parallel play you look for as part of diagnosis in primary school. I struggle to imagine feeling so comfortable with anyone else ever, I haven't in my life. But Fuck me, when it went wrong it really went very wrong. Neither of us had the communication skills to in any way get ourselves out of it or to say we were in pain. Both of us were laying down unhealthy coping mechanisms, he drunk, I frequently lost sight of my own needs and boundaries. 10 years plus the feeling of not being able to bend and break anymore was very familiar.

DS was put into the autism specialist unit in school because autism is on his diagnosis. I hated it. The kids didn't have the capacity to make the allowances he needed for his needs which extended beyond the autism and were really compatible with many of the adjustments they needed.

Autism is just so complex. There can be no blanket this is the right way. Why those supporting need discussion.

@Camperbann

Fucking hell. This statement shows how brazen people can be on here about their ableist views on autism. MNHQ - this is what results from your continual condoning of autism-bashing.

You mean the post they quickly deleted?

You’ve completely missed the point I was making - it’s the fact the poster felt entitled to make the comment in the first place as on MN so many ableist and ignorant comments about autism are allowed to stand.

(And btw comments are only deleted when reported - see for example my reply to a poster at 20:47 yesterday. That disgusting comment is there for all to see)