MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

I apologise too.
I do agree with you, just not that poster’s specific comparisons, that’s all. :)

Thank you @Mickarooni

The posters on that second thread are distressed because they are married to a partner who struggles with cognitive empathy and social communication to a degree where their emotional needs are not met and they feel invisible and invalidated every day.

That thread is the only place they can discuss their problems with other people who understand. Can you try putting yourself in their shoes and try to see it from their perspective at all?

That thread is not about you, or your relationship, but you are determined to take away their support group because you think your feelings are valid and theirs aren't?

Why is that ok, for these neurotypical parents to seemingly be an honorary part of the autistic community to the point that they are an overwhelming voice within it, but it's not ok for partners of autistic people to talk about their experiences?

Hmm... because those parents are raising those children for at least 18 years, so have some idea, where a partner may have known them for a couple of years at best? And it's not an overwhelming voice in my case, my son can't actually talk, at all.
I do believe everyone needs support though and I don't want to argue with anyone 🙂
Peace and love to all 💕

@JeeezLouise

The posters on that second thread are distressed because they are married to a partner who struggles with cognitive empathy and social communication to a degree where their emotional needs are not met and they feel invisible and invalidated every day.

That thread is the only place they can discuss their problems with other people who understand. Can you try putting yourself in their shoes and try to see it from their perspective at all?

That thread is not about you, or your relationship, but you are determined to take away their support group because you think your feelings are valid and theirs aren't?

Great post! It is important for people to have an outlet where they can discuss problems with other people who understand. And as someone with those difficulties who often struggles to line up how I feel about someone with how I behave towards them (like being cold towards someone I love because of how I'm feeling that day, and expecting them not to mind because it doesn't have anything to do with them), it has been so helpful to me to see how this behaviour affects people so I can learn how to manage it and communicate better.

@RonniePickering

Why is that ok, for these neurotypical parents to seemingly be an honorary part of the autistic community to the point that they are an overwhelming voice within it, but it's not ok for partners of autistic people to talk about their experiences?

Hmm... because those parents are raising those children for at least 18 years, so have some idea, where a partner may have known them for a couple of years at best? And it's not an overwhelming voice in my case, my son can't actually talk, at all.
I do believe everyone needs support though and I don't want to argue with anyone 🙂
Peace and love to all 💕

Also parents have to raise their kids, they don't choose to have a relationship with their kids and then marry them.

You can’t tell what the thread’s about from the title alone. As with so many it may have degenerated into a bunfight , reported and then got taken down. Heck even the opening posts of many threads have nothing to do with the title!

@JeeezLouise

The posters on that second thread are distressed because they are married to a partner who struggles with cognitive empathy and social communication to a degree where their emotional needs are not met and they feel invisible and invalidated every day.

That thread is the only place they can discuss their problems with other people who understand. Can you try putting yourself in their shoes and try to see it from their perspective at all?

That thread is not about you, or your relationship, but you are determined to take away their support group because you think your feelings are valid and theirs aren't?

I agree with this, it's an anonymous forum where people feel more comfortable than they would with family and friends who personally know their partners.

Also it’s impossible to have blanket discussion.Some autistic traits are a ‘problem’, some are just a ‘different way of thinking’.
People however seem to take all of it personally and it degenerates into a fight between NT’s and autistic people. Strangely there isn’t much on ADHD - YET

I have ADHD, an autistic DP, 90% of my exes were autistic and know lots of neurodiverse people. It’s a fact that some traits cause difficulties. People may not be able to ‘help’ it but saying ‘la la la NT just needs to adapt’ isn’t useful. Or ‘la la la ND needs to adapt’. In fact even AMONG autistic people a lot don’t want to put up with their peers.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Also it’s impossible to have blanket discussion.Some autistic traits are a ‘problem’, some are just a ‘different way of thinking’. People however seem to take all of it personally and it degenerates into a fight between NT’s and autistic people. Strangely there isn’t much on ADHD - YET

I have ADHD, an autistic DP, 90% of my exes were autistic and know lots of neurodiverse people. It’s a fact that some traits cause difficulties. People may not be able to ‘help’ it but saying ‘la la la NT just needs to adapt’ isn’t useful. Or ‘la la la ND needs to adapt’. In fact even AMONG autistic people a lot don’t want to put up with their peers.

Agree with this also, my autism is a completely different flavour and texture to my husband's. He also has inattentive ADHD so that generally means I am the 'get shit done' guy and he is the 'will gladly help to get shit done with very specific guidance' guy.

I agree op and I don't think those "my husband is a twat so I've decided he must be autistic" threads should be allowed to run.

@Blueeyedgirl21 why? A woman married to a Muslim man who needs support can seek that can’t she?

I know it's been addressed, but am utterly shocked that anyone would think people are born with OCD. Bloody hell! I believe some people (me!) are more predisposed to it, but it can definitely be helped, unlike autism, which in my view doesn't need to be helped. There's nothing wrong, though, with people sharing experiences. I think the threads on the Relationships board are helpful for many people. Of course there are some comments/opinions on there which are objectionable. But that's because some people can be idiots. Why should they be responsible for taking away a much needed safe space for people to talk?

@tiredanddangerous

I agree op and I don't think those "my husband is a twat so I've decided he must be autistic" threads should be allowed to run.

I agree.

@HypocrisyHere Have you thought about starting a thread where autistic individuals can come and post their reactions when there is a discriminatory thread. If we have a go-to place where it documents the impact of posters pedaling false stereotypes etc it could help to give others to gain an insight into how their words impact upon many autistic adults. It might also help to create a cultural shift at mums net, esp in relation to what threads they allow to run.

I am autistic. My children are both autistic and so is my partner.

I think its important to have outlets to deal with all that stuff. It is part of who we are as people and, in lots of ways, we cannot help what we do. There is alot of crossover between autism and learned behaviours that can be destructive to good relationships, especially in adults, and especially in adults who have been traumatised by having autism that wasnt recognised and supported as a child (and for many of us who were children up to the 90s that would be the case, as aspergers wasnt even classified before 87) and yes our behavious can be really difficult for others to deal with. Its a fact, and we need to recognise that - if we want understanding in one direction, and for our children, we should be able to learn it the other way - even if it is difficult to hear or to do so.
most of the maladaptive behavious have come around as self preservation. Being autistic has its good sides and benefits, but it certainly has its darker sides too. The problems come around when neither side is willing to listen or to understand, or to at least try to find compromises or ways to support each other.

@NettleTea

I am autistic. My children are both autistic and so is my partner.

I think its important to have outlets to deal with all that stuff. It is part of who we are as people and, in lots of ways, we cannot help what we do. There is alot of crossover between autism and learned behaviours that can be destructive to good relationships, especially in adults, and especially in adults who have been traumatised by having autism that wasnt recognised and supported as a child (and for many of us who were children up to the 90s that would be the case, as aspergers wasnt even classified before 87) and yes our behavious can be really difficult for others to deal with. Its a fact, and we need to recognise that - if we want understanding in one direction, and for our children, we should be able to learn it the other way - even if it is difficult to hear or to do so.
most of the maladaptive behavious have come around as self preservation. Being autistic has its good sides and benefits, but it certainly has its darker sides too. The problems come around when neither side is willing to listen or to understand, or to at least try to find compromises or ways to support each other.

Well said Again a lot of the threads (the ones I have been on anyway) are problematic because one of the below apply

a) Nobody is actually autistic people have armchair diagnosed
b) Autistic (or otherwise) partner refuses to do or change anything
c) thread gets taken over by people damming autistic people and obviously angry retaliations.

Surprised that the responses on this thread are seemingly balanced.
To answer the original question again don’t know what the contents of the threads are.
However that first thread IIRC was people not believing the OP’s DS was autistic at all.

My ds is autistic.

I didn't find the first thread offensive.

Badly wording something is just that and Mn have a function to edit the thread tittle if they felt it warranted it. The constant was helpful.

@HMG107

That’s a really interesting thought and I’ve been thinking it over for a while but I don’t think I have the strength to face the hostility that we would inevitably get.

As others have said, yes our behaviours can cause issues for NTs but what is never acknowledged - for me at least - is that every single working day their behaviour impacts negatively on me (and I don’t think I’m the only autistic person who will say that) But because they are the vast majority, their behaviour is assumed to be right and mine to be wrong. So I spend all my working life trying to behave as neurotypically as possible and that is exhausting and soul-destroying.

I would massively appreciate it if some NTs could acknowledge that some NT behaviour affects us negatively (and indeed can trigger bad behaviours in us). Until I was diagnosed (in my 40s) I absolutely hated myself as I couldn’t be like “normal” people. That’s the result of years of rejection by NTs - and I don’t think my behaviour was bad - I was more awkward and withdrawn. In fact I tried so so hard to fit in (which in reflection was probably an unattractive characteristic, not that I was aware)

The default position on MN is that the autistic person is ALWAYS wrong. That needs to change. Until BOTH sides admit/realise that their behaviours cause problems for the other then any such thread will be carnage.

But I’d really like to get to the point where we can have an open discussion with all neurotypes- where we can try to understand each other.

To be honest what I've noticed is a lot of weird gatekeeping, anyone remember the thread with the snowman christmas jumper?

The default position on MN is that the autistic person is ALWAYS wrong. That needs to change. Until BOTH sides admit/realise that their behaviours cause problems for the other then any such thread will be carnage

Any examples of this?

@Tabbacus

The default position on MN is that the autistic person is ALWAYS wrong. That needs to change. Until BOTH sides admit/realise that their behaviours cause problems for the other then any such thread will be carnage

Any examples of this?

Yes - threads 1-5 of the “support threads” in relationships.

@HypocrisyHere WTF you can't compare someone with Aspergers (who has something wrong with them) to being Jewish or Asian....

Two of my children have SEN and they do have something wrong with them however you want to say it.

someone with Aspergers (who has something wrong with them)

And in one post, the ableism and ignorance we face here is highlighted beautifully.

I agree the first thread shouldn't have been deleted, but it probably wasn't so much OPs opener as the posts that no doubt followed. The support thread is a safe, anonymous space for women (and men?) to talk about the challenges they face; and yes, it can be challenging but doesn't mean it always is and is for everyone, and doesn't mean that anyone who posts on it treats their partner badly. In fact its clear they love them but are human and need people who understand to talk things through with. I remember the snowman thread, and I agree about gatekeeping on some threads, some dismissing the opinions of others, declaring they don't have a clue as it doesn't match with their experience, or wanting to speak for all when there's a huge disparity in how it affects people's lives.

In fact its clear they love them but are human and need people who understand to talk things through wit

You have clearly not read the thread. This is categorically not true as the vast majority want to leave their (self diagnosed) autistic partners. They want support to leave them, not support to love them.