To think we should be able to afford 2 kids?

[bookofthewitch]

H and I both work as teachers. Me currently part time after DD born 18mo ago.

We have always done everything 'sensibly', have reasonably cheap for the area mortgage and various other unavoidable payments for bills etc. Old phones on cheap contracts.

No childminder option near us and I would have chosen nursery anyway, however this is very expensive so me working only leaves us 200 a month better off. It is what it is.

How the hell are we struggling so much each month to stay out of overdrafts when we've both always done everything ' right'?

AIBU to think that as professionals who have both always worked since teens, never even had credit cards or extravagant purchases, we should be able to afford one more child instead of panicking that it'll tip us into debt or just mean we have to worry about money and bills forever? We haven't had a holiday since 2017, have one cheap car that we own outright, I never buy new clothes and wear cheap make up, we are vegetarian so try to shop as cheaply as poss... it's infuriating!

I feel like my mother's and even my late 40s sister's generations never had to worry about this and could happily have as many kids as they want. Both were SAHM for a few years too! I could never as even that 200 a month makes a difference to us.

Any advice also welcome!

We have a 2 year 10 month age gap.

Childcare fees will
Be over £800 a month for 3 days a week. That's not even with my youngest going full days as we have gp help for two half days.

If I had to pay 3 full days I couldn't afford to work.

I’m also going back to work full time as a teacher next week after mat leave for my second. We have a 3.5 year age gap so that the 30 hours had kicked in 2 months before I started mat leave. This meant I could save a little bit more and also dd1 could still go to preschool 3 days a week whilst I was off. We couldn’t have afforded 2 lots of fees at the same time without really struggling. We also have free childcare from my parents 2 days a week and a term-time only place at nursery (with 25% retainer in the holidays). Things would have been easier if we’d been in a better financial position before having any dc and if dh hadn’t lost his job last year but I was already in my 30s & dh 5 years older so we decided to make the best of it and try for dc anyway. I know we have been very lucky to get the help we do from my parents. Friends with similar aged children are waiting for the first to go to school before having another but I think it can work with the 30 hours free if your nursery has a good offering like mine (8-6 3 days per week, only pay £5 a day for meals).

This isn’t going to help you now but the trick is saving and investing from way before you have kids. As soon as you have kids, it is very very hard to live on salaries alone if you have high childcare bills. I don’t know why more people do not forward plan financially

It’s very difficult to answer your question without knowing:

• Your combined earnings
• outgoings
• what you spend on incidentals

The thing is 'affordable' is such an individual thing and means something different to everyone but in reality know plenty teachers with 2 or more dc. I'm a single parent, a TA so a fraction of a teacher's salary and manage with 2 dc. I struggle of course but my dc have everything they needs and it's much easier bow I don't have to pay for any childcare and of course don't have to worry about holiday care. I live in an expensive area too as do most of the teachers I work with. It's absolutely doable but obviously very tough during the nursery years

If you went into teaching more or less straight from university then M3 still has you at around 26/27, which is very young. There are lovely advantages to having a family young but it is normal to not be established financially.

You do have to make sacrifices somewhere, whether that’s moving to a cheaper area, working full time, spacing children accordingly or rethinking your childcare. I am inclined to agree with PP that two teachers living as frugally as you say you do shouldn’t be struggling to this extent.

We are both teachers and just getting out of this horrible tight bit. Youngest is 3 and getting 30 funded hours now and we are both back to full time which makes a huge difference. So my advice would be wait til youngest in funded hours before second and accept you will be tight for money until second is in funded hours and you are both full time. When kids at school you won't have to fund childcare in the holidays if you do now (we couldn't get term time childcare pre 3). Most people have to really budget when part time/ kids under 3 but it will get easier.

We have a big age gap between our DDs for this reason. Couldn't afford 2 lots of nursery fees so had to wait til DD1 started school to have DD2. We are both professionals, cheap mortgage, can't afford holidays, not an extravagant lifestyle by any means. Life is expensive and public sector pay doesn't go far.

Two children at full time nursery is too expensive for a lot of people.

The cheapest nursery round where I used to live (within 40 mins) was £1,750 per child.

We've since moved to the arse end of nowhere. Nursery is half the price, but now we have no family support.

@sbhydrogen

The cheapest nursery round where I used to live (within 40 mins) was £1,750 per child.

We've since moved to the arse end of nowhere. Nursery is half the price, but now we have no family support.

That's absurd. Ours is £840ish a month full time. 7am-6pm.

If I'd it interesting how you talk about not having credit cards or loans being 'right', it feels restrictive to me to view them as inherently negative.

I had both and used them to start and then grow my business. I then took dividends and eventually sold it for a decent sum. People looking in at me probably assume I live above my income but I dripped those dividends into S&S ISAs and paid my mortgage off with my proceeds. None of this would have been possible without loans and credit cards.

We both work full time and have a big enough age gap so that nursery fees were one at a time

You become a SAHM for a few years and live cheaply. I can’t see where it was “easy” for previous generations tbh. My mum was 1 of 5 and lived in a 3 bed house and didn’t see outside of her town much until her teens. They ate frugally and free time was all spent playing with siblings and no paid activities. Even my OH was born in the 80’s has 2 siblings but his father worked 3 jobs to make it work.

We renovated our house pre kids then went interest only on mortgage while they were all in daycare.

Sorry for hijacking's the thread slightly, we will have 2 under 2 soon and we live abroad, but we are thinking about when timing wise to move back to the UK. I know as everyone mentioned here that 2 in nursery is very expensive, but when do the free hours kick in? Do everyone get 30 hours free when the child turns 3, and then they go to school at 4?

Thankful for a response as I'm confused about when the 15 vs 30 hours free kicks in and if this applies to everyone (also high earners? What do they count as high earners?). When we lived in London we were both on 40k, but this was 6 years ago so will be more now most likely! We are likely to move to the Kent area if this matters?

Sorry my previous post, not saying 40k is high earning in general, but we are in jobs we get commission so 40k was just the base, so with commission maybe 60k a year each, variable. I don't know if they'd give more free hours to people earning less or if it's the same across the board?

There are huge discrepancies in childcare prices (and I realise childcare is very poorly paid) around the country.
When I looked at nurserys 15 years ago when DD was a baby they were about 1k a month then so I'm amazed that even now people are paying less than that.

@Beachbabe1

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!

yeah - thats what happens!!

I feel like my mother's and even my late 40s sister's generations never had to worry about this and could happily have as many kids as they want. bollocks! I'm early 50s and we still had to make choices and pay big child care fees, and we didnt have the 30 free hours, or tax credits!

In London full time childcare is 1700-2000 per month per child so yes if you have two kids that would be between 3-4k per month. no teacher can afford that. passing them out and trying to make sure one of them is in school save costs. i guess if you have both the same gender i.e. can pass down a lot of the clothes and toys that also works out cheaper but you can tell beforehand. but generally teachers struggle.

@SunStruck I saw a really clear explanation of this somewhere online - will try to remember where. But it is complex as the govt deliberately pays childcare providers less than it costs most of them to provide the service, so there are all sorts of arrangements to try to make the books balance.

you need to post a break down of expenditure. You did the age old thing, buy a run down in a nice area and now you are sacrificing a second child for a doer-upper? Does not make sense. Home is family, and what you make of it, wherever you are. Nobody ever really gives a shit where you live or if you have marble or real hardwood or cheap laminate on the floors. Nobody. 2 teachers full-time earning should not be really worried about 200 quid a month.So I'd put having my 2nd baby first before any shit I own.

@Phineyj thanks so much please let me
Know if you find the link :)

It might be helpful to write down your in and outgoings to see if there’s any advice on here.

Have you looked at whether you’d be better off if you went FT or was a SAHP or if you’re the higher earner you could go FT and your DH go PT or become a SAHP?

Working more hours should absolutely mean you’re better off but by the time you’ve taken out childcare, tax, travel to and from work etc then sometimes it doesn’t.

If you bought a house that needs renovating in an expensive area (for the catchment) and choose to work part time then it is a bit baffling that you are now surprised to find it will involve careful planning to afford a second child. You've already made a number of expensive decisions.