To think we should be able to afford 2 kids?

[bookofthewitch]

H and I both work as teachers. Me currently part time after DD born 18mo ago.

We have always done everything 'sensibly', have reasonably cheap for the area mortgage and various other unavoidable payments for bills etc. Old phones on cheap contracts.

No childminder option near us and I would have chosen nursery anyway, however this is very expensive so me working only leaves us 200 a month better off. It is what it is.

How the hell are we struggling so much each month to stay out of overdrafts when we've both always done everything ' right'?

AIBU to think that as professionals who have both always worked since teens, never even had credit cards or extravagant purchases, we should be able to afford one more child instead of panicking that it'll tip us into debt or just mean we have to worry about money and bills forever? We haven't had a holiday since 2017, have one cheap car that we own outright, I never buy new clothes and wear cheap make up, we are vegetarian so try to shop as cheaply as poss... it's infuriating!

I feel like my mother's and even my late 40s sister's generations never had to worry about this and could happily have as many kids as they want. Both were SAHM for a few years too! I could never as even that 200 a month makes a difference to us.

Any advice also welcome!

I’m probably your mother’s generation and put two children through nursery on my own - 4 days a week with GP on one day. Not teaching, but similar salary for me (solo) plus small pension.

We didn’t have free nursery hours. We didn’t have tax credits.

We managed by not having a car and spending as little as possible. Second hand baby kit. House furnishings already bought second hand. Minimal social life. And by working FT - definitely couldn’t have done it PT.

Where are all these term time only nurseries? There aren't any where I live. Only state pre schools which run 9 to 3, which is no use to teachers.

My youngest child is in a 51 weeks a year nursery despite me being a teacher as I can't find a term time only nursery with long enough hours during term time.

Both my husband and I are teachers and we work internationally. We have a live in nanny we pay her a great salary of around £800 a month which she send back to her family. Nanny looks after the house and does a range of meals. We live in UAE. We just had our third. May kids adore her. She is part of our family and we love her very much! I don't know how long we'll be hear but the childcare options are amazing and I know well be here for a while as we just had our third. I would recommend you both look into this option. Teaching internationally is amazing!! We send home one salary each month around £3000 and live off one salary here.

We get house and money for bill. It's a win whilst the kids are so small.

Two fee kids places as well at the school. Really look into this option!

@ArthurTudor

Where are all these term time only nurseries? There aren't any where I live. Only state pre schools which run 9 to 3, which is no use to teachers.

My youngest child is in a 51 weeks a year nursery despite me being a teacher as I can't find a term time only nursery with long enough hours during term time.

Mine lets you do term time or year-round. Funded hours are 30 hours term time or 22 if you send them every week. I'm in Wiltshire.

My son is 3, full time at nursery. As the 30 free hours is only school term time 38 weeks of the year it is effectively only a 33% reduction in cost. I was hoping it would be more like a 50% drop :(

LastDays "...reasonably cheap for the area mortgage", so perhaps not a tiny mortgage?
OP feels like it is overwhelming; I think you're being a bit harsh suggesting she's either being dishonest (not disclosing current debt) or "exaggerating", especially as we don't actually know exactly how much their combined income and outgoings are.
MN is groaning under the weight of people feeling 'poor' on quite significant salaries, so I think OP is fine to feel the way she feels about her immediate financial outlook.

We had to work opposite shifts when ours were little but things have definitely changed. I have four children and when I had my first two it was before tax credits and we really struggled financially. Then tax credits came long and it made a huge difference and we were able to have our younger children. For a while things were far more family friendly than they are now. When I had my first there was financial help for a parent to stay home longer and single parents could get income support until their youngest child was 12yo if they needed it.

I most definitely couldn't have made the decisions we made then on the help families are provided with now. With tax credits/UC capped to two children and being 'encouraged' to get back into the workplace when children are still little more than babies. The whole childcare sector needs proper funding from the government so that parents can afford to have their children cared for, especially as society is now very much pushing for both parents to be back in the workplace as soon as possible after a child is born.

Personally, I'm very glad I was able to have my family under a government that supported families and lower earners more because I might not have been able to have a family otherwise.

After nursery costs the next most expensive phase is when they go to college as they are expected to stay in education but things like transport to get there are no longer covered - this can be expensive in rural areas.

@Beachbabe1

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!

I wondered how long it would be before the first benefit basher popped up. That was pretty quick considering the thread was started very early in the morning.

We should start betting on the timing for posts like this.

@ArthurTudor

Where are all these term time only nurseries? There aren't any where I live. Only state pre schools which run 9 to 3, which is no use to teachers.

My youngest child is in a 51 weeks a year nursery despite me being a teacher as I can't find a term time only nursery with long enough hours during term time.

My children have term-time places with childminders now but my eldest initially went to nursery, and we looked at lots before making ohr choice. None of them advertised term-time places but all were prepared to offer them if you asked. This included some of the bigger groups like Asquith / Bright Horizons / Busy Bees as well as small, independent businesses.

It's hard, isn't it. I had two DDs fairly close together and when they were both in nursery ( and this was a while ago, they are 17 and nearly 16 now) I was part time teaching in FE (still am) and pretty much my entire 0.5 salary of around £10,000 was on nursery fees.

My DH's salary wasn't very high at this point too and we were always in overdraft. It was tough and we struggled a lot financially.

Thing is, my job is like gold dust around here and there was no way I was able to leave and then find the same job again. And I wanted to work too.

Gets much easier when they get to 3 years old.

Agree that as school teachers, you shouldn't have to feel you are struggling, ridiculous!

I sympathise op it is hard. I have a salary similar to a teacher’s.

I have lots of friends who waited 4/5 years before having their second for childcare cost reasons. In my opinion it just prolongs the agony. We had two 21 months apart and they were in nursery for a while which was staggering then I got made redundant which in hindsight was a good thing. I pretty much gave up work for 4 years but was self employed with a low income. Financially it was tough but practically it worked. Now however they are 6 and 8 I’ve gone back to working almost ft and don’t pay for much childcare these days.

As teachers you won’t need much childcare in the hols especially as they get older which will will be a significant help.

Having two close in age makes it easier on a lot of levels and is not double the cost. They share clothes, toys and a room. They also entertain each other. Granted I’m lucky that they are the same gender and get on.

Would you consider a child minder instead of a nursery, OP?

When my friend worked out that going back to work would make her £50pw worse off, she found a lovely child minder and it was a hell of a lot cheaper.

She then realised that if she dropped her hours and worked only 3 days pw, she'd be below the threshold for repaying her student loan and everything became a lot more viable. She went back to f/t hours when she got the 30 hours free childcare.

You can afford to have two children, but you need to think long term rather than short term. The cost of childcare is crippling now, but that eases significantly once they turn 3 and by the time both are at school you are only paying for wrap around care if needed. As they get older childcare costs reduce further and by the time they are at secondary school they are very small. In your shoes I would go for planned debt now and do a bit of juggling. If you are off on maternity leave with a second, that will significantly reduce childcare costs for the first as you can do much of the childcare. What I would say, is keep your career - you will both progress and perhaps take on leadership roles with more money and that will ease things further. Many parents would agree that it can be a fairly hairy few years but you will get through it, and it is worth it.

Mine are 4 & 7 and it is easier now they're both in school. The 30 free hours was such a help. Just a word of caution though if you're thinking that when they're at school, you'll up your hours. It might not be so straightforward. Mine want to come home after school, not go to after school club. They're tired. So I knock off at 3pm every day to pick up.

If you want two children and can get through the early childcare stage then I think you'll manage. You've got most of the 'stuff' already. Just think about timing for the 30hrs to kick in.

@WulyJmpr

My son is 3, full time at nursery. As the 30 free hours is only school term time 38 weeks of the year it is effectively only a 33% reduction in cost. I was hoping it would be more like a 50% drop :(

It does seem to be so variable in how it's applied. We saved a lot more than that. I think we were lucky to have a nursery that calculated it generously and was flexible on hours, so we could save a few hours by picking DC up earlier some days etc.

Childcare has always been expensive; quite rightly in some ways but housing costs are the killer.Most people are relying on two incomes for that whereas when my DC were young we could live off DH's salary albeit, being very frugal with living costs . When I went back to work after 2 DC in close succession my salary covered childcare and I expected that.It gets easier . One thing I would say is that DC don't need things, holidays, clubs etc. That is a very recent concept, they are happy being loved and particularly in those first few years any extras can be waited for without any harm.

Having children has always been a difficult choice. When ours were small we couldn’t afford holidays and we couldn’t always afford to get our old banger fixed and sometimes it was off the road. I made most of our clothes and the others came from charity shops. All baby equipment was secondhand. At one stage my DH had a Saturday job so I hardly ever saw him and I used to do childminding for friends. However none of these sob stories will make life any easier for you. I’m afraid teachers’ pay was never appropriate for the work they do. to add to your woes, the papers this morning are saying that families need to find £1200 this year to cover the rise in energy and tax bills.

Hi OP, I am also a teacher. It sounds like you live fairly frugally. Your only option therefore is for one or both of you to earn more after childcare, if you'd benefit from more coming in. You say maybe you should make a 5 year plan. Yes, definitely! I made a 10 year plan when I entered teaching and had a DC in a short space of time. I looked up all the pay scales and salaries and realised that I would greatly benefit from stopping working in the home counties (on main scale) and instead working in inner London and getting onto UPS. So that's what I did, but gradually over 10 years and with a couple of job moves. Much easier to negotiate a raise when they want to get you, than to do it in post.

The good thing about teaching is the info on salaries is quite transparent.

Others have mentioned working overseas and in the independent sector, and in boarding, which are all worth considering.

I also freelance sometimes - exam marking and resource writing, plus I have a niche extra responsibility in school. But mainly it's been changing job strategically that's helped, and planning ahead. And reading the pay policy!

If you are paying for full time nursery, use the days that nursery's open but your school(s) aren't to get ahead on work, research new jobs and look for extra paid work.

I had another career before teaching. A lot of teachers don't really think strategically so if you can, it'll help a lot.

Time your second so you go on mat leave the September before your dc goes go Primary school, so you save a year in childcare being on mat leave and take a year so you return as dc1 goes to school and remain with 1 set of childcare bills?

If.ypu are a teacher.also you can often get tern time only deals at nurseries, which save the childcare being spent in thr holidays

Another thing to consider - I've worked various contracts since I had DC (0.5 up to FT) but have never done all full days. For many years now I've done 0.6 over 4 days. This helps the school out as it means I can teach a whole A level subject and it helps with wrap around childcare as I can arrive 'late' one day and leave 'early' on a couple of others (compared to FT colleagues - I don't get paid for those times).

So worth thinking ahead to primary years as they're more fiddly than nursery.

DH has also worked flexibly - he doesn't leave it all.to me.

I agree with @Phineyj that at least one of you needs to be career orientated if you want to make a decent living as teachers. My DH has stopped at Deputy (for now) as being a Head would be too detrimental to family life. However, up until this job we have moved every 3-4 years or so for him to take good promotions. For this job, we looked for the best possible lifestyle package (good family house without rent, hefty discount on school fees 3-18).

That said, we only have one DC through choice. We could manage two, but we wouldn’t be able to give them as many opportunities or as much support with things like university later on.