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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we should be able to afford 2 kids?

160 replies

bookofthewitch · 29/12/2021 05:42

H and I both work as teachers. Me currently part time after DD born 18mo ago.

We have always done everything 'sensibly', have reasonably cheap for the area mortgage and various other unavoidable payments for bills etc. Old phones on cheap contracts.

No childminder option near us and I would have chosen nursery anyway, however this is very expensive so me working only leaves us 200 a month better off. It is what it is.

How the hell are we struggling so much each month to stay out of overdrafts when we've both always done everything ' right'?

AIBU to think that as professionals who have both always worked since teens, never even had credit cards or extravagant purchases, we should be able to afford one more child instead of panicking that it'll tip us into debt or just mean we have to worry about money and bills forever? We haven't had a holiday since 2017, have one cheap car that we own outright, I never buy new clothes and wear cheap make up, we are vegetarian so try to shop as cheaply as poss... it's infuriating!

I feel like my mother's and even my late 40s sister's generations never had to worry about this and could happily have as many kids as they want. Both were SAHM for a few years too! I could never as even that 200 a month makes a difference to us.

Any advice also welcome!

OP posts:
StarfishDish · 29/12/2021 07:18

@bookofthewitch We're exactly the same. After the bills and essentials are paid for, we're left with £120 a month. Gas and electric are going up by £50 a month and nursery have announced they're raising fees too which will be an extra £50 a month.

Christmas was a 'second hand' Christmas for our daughter this year. She's only 10 months old so didn't need a lot. We cut right back on gifts for other people too. If people insisted on buying us a gift, we asked for vouchers to a restaurant so we could enjoy a meal out which is what we got.

We aren't entitled to funding until our daughter is three but we're focusing on when that happens, everything we'll be able to do Smile

Arrow03 · 29/12/2021 07:20

Do remember to factor in to your calculations that 30 hours free childcare isn't actually 30 hours of free childcare, especially at a nursery Round here a lot of nurseries only let you claim funded hours 9am-12pm and 1pm-4pm and you have to pay quite a lot of money for the hours outside of these times. It definitely took me by surprise!

Wotsitsits · 29/12/2021 07:22
  1. The 30 free hours aren't free they are spread over the year so in practise it's effectively a % discount on the full time cost. Since your DC is part time this will be pro rata down, you will still pay but not as much.
  1. What is your monthly income and outgoings? No one can advise you without the detail. Are you putting away 000s in savings each month? Do you have savings? Start using them....!!

I have a few friends who moan about money and found out two of the couples have 15k and 50k in savings respectively. I lost all sympathy.

As pp have said, the big cost is the early years childcare. Budget accordingly. You will get through it. So what if you end up living frugally or with credit card debt or a personal loan. You can pay that back. You can't magic a DC out of thin air and have them not cost money.

You are better off staying in work because long term you protect your earning capability. If you stop it will be harder to start again and you will be more vulnerable as a family and as an individual should the worst happen.

LakieLady · 29/12/2021 07:26

@Agadorsparticus

It's why we have a 4 year gap between mine. DC2 was born 2 days after DC1 started reception.
That's impeccable timing, @Agadorsparticus! I'm awestruck.

Childcare is hugely expensive, and imo should be subsidised from general taxation. But then I'm in favour of a high tax, good public services economy on the Scandinavian model, which will never happen here.

Pysgodywibliwobli · 29/12/2021 07:31

I agree with pp - previous generations had it hard and made sacrifices.
However, it is still ridiculous that 2 working professionals living modestly cannot afford a second child. Something is wrong in our society.

Practically - I had second child when first turned 2. That meant I took the year off on mat leave ( so no childcare cost) and then when she restarted nursery we had 30 funded hours ( I worked pt) therefore only paying for child 2. That was the most cost effective way around nursery fees for us.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/12/2021 07:35

It's tough I guess I am your sisters age. In 2007 with 2 under 5, as a ft hospital doctor (registrar) I had £500 pm left after childcare and travel. That was with working anti-social hours night's, weekends etc.

ManicPixie · 29/12/2021 07:37

Childcare in this country is broken. Society wants everyone to work but it also wants to financially cripple then to do so if they date have kids.

ManicPixie · 29/12/2021 07:38

them, dare

God this forum needs an edit function…

TheUsualChaos · 29/12/2021 07:38

How much is your mortgage compared to your income? As on two good salaries with just one DC in childcare that does seem quick tight money wise especially when you describe you aren't big spenders on other things.
Are you both newish teachers? Therefore incomes projected to go up steadily over next few years? In which case things will improve hugely once DC in school.
I agree though, affording a basic standard of living when you need to pay for 3 Plus days childcare is week is very hard unless you have above average income. This is the main reason why we had to wait to try for DC2, then DC1 was at school by the time I finished mat leave so only ever had one in child care at a time.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/12/2021 07:39

I should have said we are now finaicially comfortable and able to support our children through University it is worth it, just keep going.

AutumnAnn · 29/12/2021 07:42

Can you change your work hours to save some childcare costs?
Me and my partner both work, but around each other so one of us is always home with the kids and we have no childcare costs, he will work 4 days a week, i will work 1 or 2 days a week in between his days off.

Lastdaysofdecember · 29/12/2021 07:47

However, it is still ridiculous that 2 working professionals living modestly cannot afford a second child

Well, this does depend on a myriad of factors. I’m assuming UPS3. I’m on UPS3, and that’s £2,376 take home pay. The OP is part time so I’ll halve that and round up to £1200. So rounding the DHs salary and halving the OPs leaves us with £3,550.

Let’s say DC is in nursery for three days and this will vary according to where they live but my nursery charges £55 a day so I’ll use that as my baseline. So let’s call that £700 a month - less 20% - that’s 640 but I’m rounding up not down, so £650.

That leaves £2900 - that’s to pay the mortgage and bills which can’t be THAT much, given old phones, own car outright, etc.

OP and her DH may not be on UPS3 of course but even M1 (lowest pay scale) is £25,717. I’m not sure what that is after tax and pension contributions and I do see that would be tight but then it goes up.

So I’m not sure it’s quite as bleak as the OP paints. If they do have a joint income of around £3500 a month then I do think they could afford a second child.

DeepaBeesKit · 29/12/2021 07:47

How most people manage it:

  • save before starting on kids. If you can manage now bringing in only 200 a month after childcare, you could have saved easily a grand a month before having kids.
  • work full time. The huge childcare bill doesnt last forever then when they are at school your career hasnt suffered and you suddenly have plenty of money.
  • have one parent quit a 9-5 but work evenings/weekends/nights to reduce childcare costs
  • rely heavily on family childcare
  • have one SAHP and depend on benefit top ups
  • wait to have children until earnings are higher
DeepaBeesKit · 29/12/2021 07:50

So I’m not sure it’s quite as bleak as the OP paints.

I'm not either. Dsis and dbil have two kids, they teach and teaching wages cover more than childcare so OP would always be better off working full time, for one. Teachers can save a lot by choosing a nursery offering term time only - especially common from age 3. I suspect OP hasnt realised with 30 hours and a term time place at 3 her childcare bill will be peanuts.

Beachbabe1 · 29/12/2021 07:51

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!

rrhuth · 29/12/2021 07:54

How the hell are we struggling so much each month to stay out of overdrafts when we've both always done everything ' right'?

This is a question so many people are asking now. Many people who work at the lower end of the earning scale are in poverty FFS! Teachers and nurses can not afford to buy homes.

The system is broken - a society is dysfunctional if regular jobs do not allow for regular lives. Cost of living is going to worsen and many of us are in for a shitty time.

@bookofthewitch I sympathise Brew but have no answers other than cut outgoings or increase incomings!

rrhuth · 29/12/2021 07:54

@Beachbabe1

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!
Oh do give over Biscuit
ThirdElephant · 29/12/2021 07:55

We went for a nanny, OP. Worked out cheaper once we had two kids.

rrhuth · 29/12/2021 07:57

It warned that in April the introduction of tax changes, with a new price cap on energy bills, will cost families £1,200 overnight.

From today's article here: www.theguardian.com/money/2021/dec/29/uk-households-warned-of-year-of-the-squeeze-as-cost-of-living-soars

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 29/12/2021 07:58

Quite simply I had to get a pay rise between my first and second to survive, (not an option for everyone) and it’s still so hard!
I also don’t buy the idea that kids get cheaper after the preschool child care years/ school have endless holidays and run 9-3- you still have a childcare bill, plus more expensive holidays, uniform to buy etc- perhaps OP you are realising you may only afford 1 child.

Lastdaysofdecember · 29/12/2021 07:59

@Beachbabe1

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!
No, they can’t. Benefits are capped at two children and have been for nearly five years.
girlmom21 · 29/12/2021 08:02

If you want another child and you're currently struggling to afford the cost of living you need to earn more or quit work completely and live even more modestly on one salary. That's the simplicity of it.

We'll have two in full time nursery in a few months (can't get older ones 30 hours until September) but we'll both be working full time. Yes the days are long but it makes better financial and long term career sense.

rrhuth · 29/12/2021 08:03

Plus derailing every discussion about working people with the same repetitive comments about benefits is really boring.

The op has raised an interesting and relevant topic that applies to lots of people I think, and one that is going to apply to more of us through the next year or so.

Figgygal · 29/12/2021 08:04

Ive no clue how people do it
We have a 4 year gap with our two and second has just started school in September its been a long 10 years and despite earning more now than ever still feel like have no money (bloody mortgage)

TinyLittlePandaSneeze · 29/12/2021 08:04

@Beachbabe1

Yet people on benefits and not working can pop them out one after the other!
The biology of having children is not linked to money or benefits or anything like that.

And no one "pops" out a child.

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