Just discovered we live next door to a hoarder - What to do?

[FaLaLaLaLaaaar]

This post makes me sound like a pearl-clutching nosey neighbour, but I honestly don’t know what to do!

We recently moved into a new semi-detached home. Our neighbours to the right (not the one we are attached to) have always been quite pleasant and friendly. They’re a couple in their mid fifties and we often see him going to work, but she stays home.

They always keep their curtains closed, so their house always looks dark and you’d never know they were home.

Whilst popping out to the car earlier, I noticed their living room curtains were open (they don’t have any nets) and a light bulb was on, so I could see straight in. I WAS SO SHOCKED! Their entire living room is piled high to the light bulb with boxes and magazines! Every single space was full and some had fallen down. I am guessing their cat must have pulled the curtains down as god know how they would’ve got to them to open them!

DH said when he was trimming our trees he saw in from the garden and their dining room and kitchen appear to be in similar conditions. I’m assuming this means every room in their house must be like this too.

What should we do? I don’t want to get them in any trouble, but this is a massive fire hazard and although we are not attached to them, I do worry about the amount of flammable materials in there.

So do we just ignore this and do nothing?

Or should we call the fire brigade or something?

@FaLaLaLaLaaaar I'm glad you've some to a decision that you're comfortable with. You'll note that all those who've posted on this thread in favour of the OP taking some kind of action are those who work with people who hoard / vulnerable people. There haven't been any posts from professionals that have said "do nothing, mid your own" There have been some really interesting posts from friends and relatives of hoarders and from hoarders themselves. Everyone with experience agrees that its an extremely complex issue and that its very likely that the neighbours who hoard will not want to change their behaviour. But, just making sure that it's documented somewhere that the house is at a higher risk should there be a fire (and it absolutely is, whatever people on here are claiming), is one positive step that may help avert a disaster further down the line.

Definitely DO NOT mind your own business, OP. I haven't rtft. However I wouldnt hesitate to speak to the fire authority who will come and offer them advice (not bring a skip as someone has sarcastically suggested). A couple of years ago a house not far from where I live burned down due to the elderly couple that lived there being hoarders - I remember it being in a similar state to what you've described. They'd had visits from the fire authority who'd advised them not to use small portable heaters in the winter due to the fire risk with all their crap lying around. Anyway, their house caught fire with them both in it, started by a portable heater, they couldn't get out because of all their stuff, the fire brigade couldn't gain access, the elderly couple died, and the house ended up being demolished. Their neighbours also suffered with rats due to their hoarding, and then smoke damage because of the fire.

Here's the story.

www-liverpoolecho-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/pictures-reveal-firefighters-could-not-12587197.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16408092185394&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.liverpoolecho.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fliverpool-news%2Fpictures-reveal-firefighters-could-not-12587197

I think it should be reported, many years ago I lived next door to a very pleasant middle aged hippy type alcoholic hoarder, he clearly had mental health problems. I came home from work one evening to find police everywhere, he had been found dead, he had committed suicide, I carried guilt for some time for not reporting him to the council.

@Newyearnewme2022

I think it should be reported, many years ago I lived next door to a very pleasant middle aged hippy type alcoholic hoarder, he clearly had mental health problems. I came home from work one evening to find police everywhere, he had been found dead, he had committed suicide, I carried guilt for some time for not reporting him to the council.

What do you think the council would've done?

@Offmyfence offered support?

[quote dittheringdoldrums]@Offmyfence offered support?[/quote]
Very doubtful

@Offmyfence I’m going back 20 years, who else would I have reported it to at the time? I imagine he would have had some sort of support, maybe enough to not top himself.

@Offmyfence why so pessimistic? Multi agency working has been mentioned several times on this thread. Do you the teams discussed are just a figment of someone's imagination?
It's absolutely right that if someone has capacity then they can refuse all support and intervention, but it's just not true that there aren't devices around to provide support if people reach out for it or are deemed to not have capacity so are deemed vulnerable. It may not be the case in every area of the UK, but they most certainly do exist, and it's really disingenuous to suggest that they don't.

Mind your own business!!!

Unfortunately I have a relative who lives like this, believe me they know about the fire/hygiene hazard. They know it's the reason their dgc aren't allowed to visit. They know it's why they don't have their friends around...

It's a mental illness and only the person affected can deal with it. It's frustrating for the family believe me but I'd be really angry if you interfered as a neighbour.

Thanks @dittheringdoldrums you’ve very eloquently said exactly what I feel. Those who have experience working in/with hoarding are all saying to tell someone.

I do understand that it can be seen as interfering in my neighbours’ private life and that people have a right to live how they choose, but I think the risk from doing nothing outweighs the harm from telling the FB.

They're not elderly. They're in their 50s. He works so I'm sure he is well aware of the issue.

The fire brigade is not going to be able to stop them hoarding, nor will they magically be able to wave a magic wand and clear all the stuff.

All that will happen is that they will know that they've got horrid new neighbours.

@Clymene

They're not elderly. They're in their 50s. He works so I'm sure he is well aware of the issue.

The fire brigade is not going to be able to stop them hoarding, nor will they magically be able to wave a magic wand and clear all the stuff.

All that will happen is that they will know that they've got horrid new neighbours.

💯

[quote dittheringdoldrums]@Offmyfence why so pessimistic? Multi agency working has been mentioned several times on this thread. Do you the teams discussed are just a figment of someone's imagination?
It's absolutely right that if someone has capacity then they can refuse all support and intervention, but it's just not true that there aren't devices around to provide support if people reach out for it or are deemed to not have capacity so are deemed vulnerable. It may not be the case in every area of the UK, but they most certainly do exist, and it's really disingenuous to suggest that they don't. [/quote]
These are 50 year old people, ones working.... they're not vulnerable

If the person living there has capacity they can reasonably refuse someone going in.

If the front and outside is tidy and the people present personally as tidy and clean I doubt anyone can do anything and it isn't the same as a place that smells and has rubbish stacked around. Hoarding has different levels.

You wouldn't know my relative lives as she does to meet her. She works, she is clean and well presented. She has a lot of stuff and can't keep on top of it.

I am willing to bet that, if the OP had posted here saying “I saw my neighbours were hoarders, but did nothing, and now their house has burned down, they are both in hospital, badly burned, and the neighbour attached to them has also had their house badly damaged - I thought about reporting the condition of the home to the Fire Brigade, but decided to mind my own business - did I do the right thing?” - she would get a barrage of posts saying she should have reported it, and she should feel guilty for the harm and damage done.

I’m also pretty sure that few, if any of the MYOB crowd would be as sanguine if they were living next to a hoarded home. It’s very easy to ignore a problem that isn’t on your own doorstep.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

I am willing to bet that, if the OP had posted here saying “I saw my neighbours were hoarders, but did nothing, and now their house has burned down, they are both in hospital, badly burned, and the neighbour attached to them has also had their house badly damaged - I thought about reporting the condition of the home to the Fire Brigade, but decided to mind my own business - did I do the right thing?” - she would get a barrage of posts saying she should have reported it, and she should feel guilty for the harm and damage done.

I’m also pretty sure that few, if any of the MYOB crowd would be as sanguine if they were living next to a hoarded home. It’s very easy to ignore a problem that isn’t on your own doorstep.

So what do you think is going to happen? A couple with complete capacity are not going to be made to empty their house!

@Clymene

They're not elderly. They're in their 50s. He works so I'm sure he is well aware of the issue.

The fire brigade is not going to be able to stop them hoarding, nor will they magically be able to wave a magic wand and clear all the stuff.

All that will happen is that they will know that they've got horrid new neighbours.

Absolutely agree, what do you think the fire brigade will do?

They can only advise, they can't force people to change their lifestyle.

I doubt 50 year olds in work will be considered vulnerable in the same sense that very elderly people or those lacking capacity would be.

I know this has hit a core with me due to my relative ( so maybe don't have clarity) but I know she would be mortified to know her neighbours felt like this about her.

You only know what you know about their house due to the curtain rail fail, not because the environment around you has been affected as previous examples have mentioned (vermin, unsightly rubbish etc) and that's why you should MYOB. For all you know there may be several people in the street living exactly the same way.

I have a neighbour who is a hoarder. It is a fire hazard. They have had several visits from the Fire Service as it is a Housing Association property.

It makes literally no difference. The Fire Service go in, they tell them it's a hazard. But they have no power to actually DO anything about it.
They have had family in several times in the decade I have lived here, who have filled skips. It's caused my neighbour emotional turmoil, and within weeks they have started stockpiling stuff again.
They are actually now having mobility problems, the HA want them out but social services are dragging their heels.
I've seen first hand how their hoarding is causing damp to go through to the adjoining property. But the HA have to issue warnings, they do this and family step in, do just enough to appease the HA and the cycle starts again.

Realistically the Fire Service are not going to be able to do anything about your neighbours.

Adult Social Care don't just work with the elderly. Just clearing up that nugget of information. We have dedicated teams that work with working aged adults who need help in all sorts of areas.

OP, just to add, if you do contact the fire brigade, they will probably make the referral to ASC / Environmental Health as well. As someone mentioned up thread, there's a lot of multi agency work that goes on these days. Even if they end up declining support, and are both deemed to have capacity (it worries me a little that you haven't seen much of the woman that lives there) then it's a good thing that they are at least made aware of the services that available.

People always say "mind your own business" until something goes horribly wrong.

Then it's all wails and cries of "but why did no-one do anything??!".

Fire brigades absolutely do take an interest in hoarding:
www.london-fire.gov.uk/safety/carers-and-support-workers/hoarding-disorder/

OP as you have only recently moved into your house, it could work well to visit the neighbours and tell them you are booking a free home fire safety visit for yourselves and would they like one too? Whether they say yes or no you should go ahead with a visit for yourself and perhaps you could then persuade the officer to give the neighbours a knock and say they have noticed the piles from outside...

@Offmyfence - if the worst does happen, and the OP has spoken to the Fire Brigade, at least she will feel she tried to get them help. Speaking personally, I would rather do something than feel guilty that I’d turned a blind eye.

And from what previous posters with professional experience of this subject have said, the Fire Brigade may be able to refer the matter onwards, and get the neighbours some more help, if they feel it is necessary.

And if the Fire Brigade know it’s a hoarded home, this may help them in the event of a fire - they’ll know what they are walking into - and this may keep them safer.

A severely hoarded house is a fire hazard, and will make it much, much harder for the occupants to escape, in case of a fire, or for the emergency services to reach them. Even if they don’t have a fire, if one of them has a fall or a medical emergency, the paramedics may struggle to treat them or to get them out if they need to go to the hospital.

I would rather say something and be wrong, than not say anything, and see someone get injured or killed. At least then I’d feel I’d done what I could.

Yes, I know there is a vulnerable adults team. I have made safeguarding referrals.
Make a referral if you want OP, but nothing is likely to happen.
Multiagency teams work with vulnerable people i.e. those without capacity, serious mental health problems or other serious issues.
Hoarding is very common. About 6% of the population are hoarders. Multiagency teams see and work with the extreme end. They simply don't work with most hoarders and wouldn't.

@Lockheart

People always say "mind your own business" until something goes horribly wrong.

Then it's all wails and cries of "but why did no-one do anything??!".

But there is nothing anyone can do. My aunt was a hoarder. She was also a highly respected scientist with an OBE.

If the fire service had turned up at her house because a 'concerned' neighbour had reported her, she would have told them to piss off. And that would have been that.

Hoarding is a mental illness. It doesn't get cured with a visit from a couple of firefighters.

@Offmyfence but we have no idea if the wife is vulnerable or not. She may be absolutely fine, she may have really significant mental health issues. The husband going out to work each days tells us nothing about the state of his wife's health. We know nothing about them at all.

Worse case scenario - husband is the hoarder, wife is mentally vulnerable and cannot escape the situation that he has placed them in. As I said, worse case scenario, but at the same time entirely possible.

As members of society we need to be better at picking up signs of where there are possible concerns and learn what to do when we see them. As someone has already said, there were countless threads on here after the horrific death of little Arthur about people just not doing enough. People don't suddenly stop being vulnerable once they are older. It can happen at any time in life.