To ask how you afford to live in London?

[seekinglondonlife]

Name changed regular as my family are on MN and I don't want my posting history linked.
We decided to do Christmas in London this year, we've had a crap year and just wanted to get away. We're staying in a fairly central hotel, have been travelling around and exploring by bus everyday and I feel like I really want to move here. The diversity, having shops open on a Sunday past 5pm, the atmosphere, the ability to choose 5 or 6 different ethnic restaurants on the same street. The public transport is fantastic.

I've been looking in so many estate agents windows and cannot get over the cost of rent/to buy a property. How do 'normal' people live here? I've been friendly with a few of the hotel staff, they've lived and worked in London for 20+ years and have raised their families here, but they are on NMW jobs, so how do they do it? Does everyone get housing benefit?

If you feel inclined please say roughly where you live and how much you pay for rent/mortgage. Also what are the downsides? (Apart from the cost of housing!)

TIA

Onlychildhamster, for many people though life is not a matter of being the town mouse or the country mouse, it is just not like that. As a child I did visit the galleries and museums, theatre etc and the jobs my parents/step parents had were central London based, PR for expensive well known hotels etc.but even so returning to suburbian London was very unexciting and going to school in suburbian London was the same. Like I said my kids life here is much more exciting and there is a strong sense of community in this part of Brighton, buzzing social life for parents etc.

@EnidSpyton sorry I missed that. Yes living in z1 means you get all the amazing benefits on your doorstep. I think London is a beautiful city, my dad would often walk into the city because he loved crossing the bridges.

I'm in z3 & because I work locally am very much confined to my area. I feel the same about the outer zones as you, a few areas have a high street with everything but others don't. Hence why we will likely to move to another city or large town.

I used to live in zone 5 cheaper and more green. I also used to live with somebody else hence two incomes. Things were a lot cheaper then mind. Before 2008.

@EnidSpyton - all of London outer areas are not the same; you're conflating Havering with Richmond, Watford with Croydon, that's really a bit daft. Some parts of zone 3 are tedious suburbs and some zone 5/6 areas are full town centres; if you go street by street then you will find some soulless suburbs, some proper towns, some areas that are extensions of London, some ethnic minority centres, in fact the whole variety of life. Some people live by huge parklands that are accessible in a way that farmland isn't; others live in the middle of busy communities. If you travel a bit more round London then you might be surprised what you find in different areas, or you could try asking people why they chose where they live. Not everywhere is where you grew up, and not everyone sticks close to home their whole lives.

[quote JustUseTheDoorSanta]@EnidSpyton - all of London outer areas are not the same; you're conflating Havering with Richmond, Watford with Croydon, that's really a bit daft. Some parts of zone 3 are tedious suburbs and some zone 5/6 areas are full town centres; if you go street by street then you will find some soulless suburbs, some proper towns, some areas that are extensions of London, some ethnic minority centres, in fact the whole variety of life. Some people live by huge parklands that are accessible in a way that farmland isn't; others live in the middle of busy communities. If you travel a bit more round London then you might be surprised what you find in different areas, or you could try asking people why they chose where they live. Not everywhere is where you grew up, and not everyone sticks close to home their whole lives.[/quote]
I've lived here for 35 years so I am fully aware not all suburbs are the same.

However zone 5 and zone 6 areas of London - all of which are towns in their own right - are not London. They are not close enough to central London via public transport to make it a quick and easy journey into town. As such life tends to be lived in the suburb rather than in London itself. This is my point - I don't see the value in paying high property prices to live in 'London' - when you're not actually living in it. I didn't mean to imply that these suburbs aren't pleasant places to live. Many of them are lovely. It's just that they cost so much more to live in than other places they are very similar to elsewhere BECAUSE of their proximity to London when the reality is the proximity to London doesn't make the suburb more exciting or interesting to live in than places miles away from London.

I'm fortunate and live in zone one, mortgage free but eye watering service charges.
Shops, restuarants, etc decimated at the moment - city fringes. Several areas I know a bit further out have actually got a lot buzzier in locksown - people WFH actually bieng at home and doing stuff locally.
There are plenty of areas that aren't central London, easily commutable, but are perfectly pleasant, affordable and not "rough" as PPs have describes - and if I meet friends near "their" mainline station, they can often travel home in a similar time to me.
If you're staying in central London, estate agents around there are likely to be advertising central, expensive locations.

We live in zone 2 (south of the river) and can walk to the King's Road in ten minutes. Large 2 bed flat with underground parking and a lovely shared garden. Average professional salaries, no inheritances. Mortgage v small and will be paid off next year.

However, we are just lucky and quite old (mid 50s/early 60s). We bought in Surrey 25 years ago with a saved deposit and a big mortgage - and sold our house there for a big unearned profit to buy closer in.

I think it's important that people like us understand how much harder things are now to be honest. I don't know many young people who can buy now without significant help.

They are not close enough to central London via public transport to make it a quick and easy journey into town

I often read people saying I live in Z6 & my journey is 25mins which can't be representative of many as you also need to include walking to the station & walking to your destination at the other end plus waiting for trains/buses etc

@EnidSpyton I lived in zone 1,2 and 3, and I find I don't really see any difference in my enjoyment of central London? It doesn't take long to get in. Living in Bloomsbury wasn't that great because of the noise and Southwark was honestly soul-less.camden was nice but I would be worried about the drugs if I had a child. I like where I am living now best- you can get to central London quickly but it's also quieter. I think zone 5 might be different, it takes ages for me to get to zone 5.

Why people live in London suburbs- cost. They can't afford the nice parts of zone 1/2, particularly places like Kensington and primrose hill. But yet living in a well connected commuter town like St Alban's and Guildford is ££££ when you add up the cost of fares and the mortgage. The incremental cost of a ticket from zone 3 or even zone 4 isn't too high.

To add a reason for living in the suburbs is compromise.

I grew up in the burbs, mum very much a city person, dad very much rural. For work reasons they needed to live in London, so for them it was easy to get into and out of London.

Personally for me I zone 4, I love been able to get out of London to the country side as well as get into London easily. Having lived in zone 2, west London, I far prefer living further out, quieter and more space.

they cost so much more to live in than other places they are very similar to elsewhere BECAUSE of their proximity to London when the reality is the proximity to London doesn't make the suburb more exciting or interesting to live in than places miles away from London.
People travel to work in London, the proximity does actually matter for those who work in London. More importantly, even though you say "Many of them are lovely", it clearly isn't what you believe. There's better shopping in Kingston or Watford than Guildford or Luton. If you're a cyclist, a rower or a runner then there are lifestyle options you can't get elsewhere. The big park areas of Epping Forest, Lee Valley, Richmond Park or the routes up the Thames can't be matched by areas of farmland where the land isn't accessible and there are no safe pavements or paths. Amenities vary, but of course people travel into London, to other outer zones and even outside London; the accessibility of all areas varies depending on where you live. However long you've lived in London, you have more exploring to do, because you are missing a lot.

There's better shopping in Kingston or Watford than Guildford or Luton.

Personally I prefer the shopping & eateries in Guildford to Kingston. Don't know Watford & Luton.

Though I don't see the point in arguing about the outer zones, different people have different preferences, you shouldn't take it personally.

I live in Zone 4 - couldn't afford and wouldn't want to live closer into the centre. We originally bought a small flat in a rubbish area of Zone 4 and then moved to a 3 bed house also in zone 4 and then finally to where we live now.

Born and bred here in Zone 2. Bought my first flat in east London zone 2 in my late 20s and sold it ten years later for almost double, as the area had become more trendy. Enabled me to buy a 5 bed semi with a huge garden in zone 3 in a not very trendy area. However the mortgage is £2200 a month!

North London, zone 3 2 bed flat, I'm an NHS nurse, my husband is a retired NHS HCA. We're in mid/late 50s, many in our age bracket bought while prices were affordable.

@stiltonandcrackers

To add a reason for living in the suburbs is compromise.

I grew up in the burbs, mum very much a city person, dad very much rural. For work reasons they needed to live in London, so for them it was easy to get into and out of London.

Personally for me I zone 4, I love been able to get out of London to the country side as well as get into London easily. Having lived in zone 2, west London, I far prefer living further out, quieter and more space.

Agree. I'd much rather live in zone 3/4/5 than in zone 1/2. I'd hate to live in central London. It's so anonymous.

I love where I live in zone 3..border of zone 4. It's a perfect mix of city/suburb for me.

Zone 6 here but was lucky to have bought our council house with the right to buy scheme
Unfortunately out children who are early 20's dont stand a chance or even getting on the council list our house is worth
350k for zone 6, ( bought for 191k ) 3 bed house about 30 minutes to central London by train
My neice has just bought in Kent, good transport links to central london , she commutes daily

We live in zone 4, 18 minute train to the centre. We have a big 6-bed Victorian semi and paid over £900k, which I fully appreciate sounds mad to some of you as I could buy a castle in wherever but it’s the best of all worlds for us.

Got here with a 20k inheritance when my dad died, bought my first flat in 2004 in zone 2 as a single person with a good professional, and never lost my foothold in that property market because I never sold that flat - I couldn’t find a buyer at the depth of the slump in 2009 so switched it to BTL and became an accidental landlord and remortgaged to buy a house in a much cheaper bit of zone 4, further out with worse transport. Then by 2016 when we wanted to move, my husband’s income entered the equation and we effectively leapt a couple of rungs to this house and we brought a lot of equity from the house plus remortgaged the BTL again. Mortgage now is around £2k a month - feels a lot but isn’t too bad for what we’re getting.

Childcare is the crippler for now as we have 3 kids; we’d just got past the expensive early years stage when I had a surprise 3rd baby last year when I was 44 so we’re back to the start of it again, so I’ll be almost 50 by the time I finally move to wraparound childcare only. I do have a decent civil service pension but I’ll be paying the mortgage down for a while.

Most people I know who have the big houses either have family money, lots of equity from getting on the ladder early, or 2 earners of £100k+ (of which there are quite a lot in London) or 1 much bigger earner E.g. QC or banker, or a combination of some/all those things!

I’m sure we could sell up and release a lot of money but I love bringing the children up with access to London. And I’m brown and the children are mixed-race and I grew up with our family being the “only” in an otherwise-lovely country village and I’m not putting them through that.

We live in a 4 bed semi in zone 3.

It's a lovely big Edwardian house, but had been totally neglected when we bought it 2.5 years ago. It was the only way we could have a house like ours. Still cost us 750k though.

I bought my first flat in London in 1999 with a deposit gifted by an aunt (£7.5k). Lived there for a few years then bought a 3 bed maisonette in a neighbouring street for £192.5k.. also a doer upper. Sold that after being there 14 years for £500k.. mortgage paid down to £58k ish so had a big deposit.

Still had to take a mortgage of £260k and extend our term back up to 30 yrs having seen the finishing line in sight, but we needed more space and the house is a 6 minute walk to DC's school, and a 15 min walk to the secondary we hope DS will be attending next year.

For me its swings and roundabouts. We have the big mortgage but also have secure jobs and the sort of house we always wanted. Still needs a ton of work doing to it though!

We pay £1317 a month on our mortgage, which I don't think is that horrendous.

We're not a particularly high income family for London either..£80k between us.

For those that have teens and older children, did you live in a flat with them? I'm just wondering what the norm is, is it fairly standard for late teens/young adults to be in bunk beds in a shared bedroom?

@seekinglondonlife

For those that have teens and older children, did you live in a flat with them? I'm just wondering what the norm is, is it fairly standard for late teens/young adults to be in bunk beds in a shared bedroom?

Yes, my three were/are in bunk beds. They share a room. In many families I know, the teens share a room, even if there’s a five-year age gap. I earn about 30k, DH earns about 25k. We bought the flat years ago when the DC were small.

Do they not mind sharing the same room?

@seekinglondonlife my MIL has a 3 bed terrace and her two younger children shared a room into their teens until the older one left for university. I would have thought that's not exclusive to London though; surely people with 3 or more children can't all afford 4+ bedrooms even outside London. I do think boys need separate bedrooms; my DH got the box room when he hit puberty.

My DMIL has a friend with 2 grown up daughters - they have a lovely converted flat which is technically a 2 bed but is actually a 3 bed with an unofficial 'loft room'. My DMIL and her friend are nearly 60 and they both work and bought property before the crazy prices but their kids still shared rooms/lived in flats in their teens so you can imagine how it is like now.

@Goldenbear

Do they not mind sharing the same room?

It’s normal. They’ve always shared. Most/many of their friends share with siblings too.