I'm usually not unreasonable, but is my judgment clouded?

[MrsKellySeveride]

Hi all knowing Mumsnetters

I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable regarding DS17 and car insurance.

Bit of background - DS17 lives 99% of the time with me, visiting his Dad occasionally overnight (this has gone from once EOW for a good number of years when DS was younger, to nil over the last 2-3 years as DS truly saw who his Dad was as a person and didn't like it much, to once every few weeks as DS has started working for his Dad (I could write a whole other thread on this but DS views it as due to the fact that his Dad only pays £14/week maintenance as he's self employed and can basically declare whatever he likes, it's a way of getting some money out of his Dad in a job that he does quite like) and some shifts start early or finish late.

DS has been learning to drive, both with an instructor (which DS pays for mainly but with me helping him out if he's short for whatever reason) and in my car, for which I pay quite a hefty sum as it's a new car and he's on a provisional licence. He has a practical test booked for mid Jan which could go either way due to DS being a little too over confident but generally a pretty safe driver.

Now, here's the problem - DS's Dad has acquired (someone he knows was upgrading so he got it cheap, but whatever, it is still very generous) a car for DS for Christmas. It's old but pretty reasonable for a first car (originally, his Dad wanted to get him something much too big and powerful for a new driver which would have cost £8000+ to insure until I stepped in and said no). He has arranged MOT, tax and recovery and the vehicle is insured for drivers with a full driving licence through his business vehicle insurance. DS's Dad has asked that I research insurance (he has offered to pay half) for DS to be able to drive the car whilst learning with me in the vehicle as he's here the majority of the time. I've currently not got the headspace for this as I work full time 12 hour nights with very little in the way of back-up. I have asked that ExH sorts out insurance as it isn't fair that his gift puts more work and responsibility onto me and potentially costs me, although he has said he will reimburse me.

DS is really excited about this and I can see that it is a really generous gift for a 17yr old. Obviously, he wants to bring the car home and start practicing in it once it is insured but I feel that I have already arranged for insurance for him on a (my) car and already giving quite a lot of time supervising him. I have asked that the car remains at his Dad's until he passes his test and is properly insured.

ExH has said I am unreasonable for not wanting to sort more insurance out on a car I have had nothing to do with the purchase of because "he lives with you". We also got into a bit of a heated discussion, (although not an argument as I will not be drawn into a slanging match, I've been doing the single parent thing for 15 years, I'm way past arguments) because I only have 1 space to park on my drive and ExH thinks the DS's car should be parked on the drive and mine on the road so that I'm not having to move 2 cars about to get on and off my drive.

I'm really trying to be gracious and grateful on DS's behalf but can't help but feeling his gift to DS should not adversely impact my life so much. I have explained that it will be at least the first week of January before I have the time to look at insurance properly which is potentially only 2 weeks away from DS's test!

Sorry about the jumbled thoughts, this is how my life is working nights and waking up to problems which I haven't brought on myself!!

Thanks for reading and Happy Boxing Day!!

Op does not have to own the car or be insured on the car in order to supervise her son. It sounds like OP is insured on the car which is sensible but is not a legal requirement. It is perfectly fine for the dad to own the car and his ex supervise his son in it.

Your son is 17 and can sort out his own insurance. It sounds like marmalade would be sensible. I agree I doubt that your son will be insured on the fleet policy, but that is between him and your ex.

I can completely see your point of view on the insurance. But refusing to have the car at yours etc is just petty. It is a nice present and will give your son a lot of freedom. Hopefully he will pass in january and if he has his own car it's ridiculous to insist he keeps it away from where he lives.

And again he hasn't bought the 2L diesel, yes it's silly but that hasn't actually happened so there's no need to keep rehashing it.

@HirplesWithHaggis

I don't think you can insure the same car twice. Worth ds checking that out first.

You can - learner driver insurance.

If it’s on the fleet insurance is it actually a company car? And if so, is your DS liable for tax on it as an employment benefit?

OP, if you're in England I wouldn't touch this 'arrangement' with a barge-pole. Either your Ex sorts it out in its entirety, financially and legally, or he doesn't even go there.

My DC always knew this was the deal with cars. Their father and his parents consequently contributed and did absolutely fuck all.

Which was typical.

Like you say, it's a headspace thing. And you'll be stuck with the monetary, practical, bureaucratic and legal consequences. He'll be all, 'ooh I bought you a car; mum's a meanie'.

Just a quick update - DS's Dad has arranged learner insurance for DS and DS is very happy. I don't know what company he has used as I know Marmalade stated it wasn't suitable for learners learning in their own cars and I've seen the log book - DS is the registered keeper and owner of the car. I'll ask for a screenshot of the insurance document before I take him out in it as I always have my Marmalade policy available when I take him out in my car - just in case!

I've spoken to DS and he knows that I wasn't being unreasonably or deliberately obstructive, just wanting to make sure everything is done properly so that there is absolutely nothing that could cause a problem. We've talked about the potential issues if he was left uninsured because of an oversight by any one of us - he wants to be a paramedic and needs a clean driving licence before he can apply for the course.

He's has a little drive of the car in his Dad's compound (before his Dad sorted out insurance, so couldn't go on the road) and is looking forward to bringing the car home once his Dad's and my shifts align, as one of us will need a lift home.

I've not asked about the fleet insurance issues yet as I don't think I could stand another heated discussion again so soon where I'm portrayed as being unreasonable. That'll be be a conversation I'll keep until DS actually passes his test. I've seen telltale signs in DS's proud photos he's taken of the car though - there's a company car sticker in the back window with the name of the firm. No idea how DS being the vehicle owner but being on a fleet insurance works but I'll keep an open mind for now.

Not really resolved the issue of where DS will park - I'd quite like not to have to move DS's car so I can get off the drive but I also don't want to annoy my neighbours by making everyone shunt up to make room on the already chock-a-block street.

We'll work it out though 😊

@colourfulpuddles

YABU. It’s just insurance. And you had no right to stop your ex buying whatever car he wanted to buy his son.

It’s also not acceptable for you to say DS can’t bring his own car to his own house.

Can't have it both ways either OP should have nothing to do with it including sorting insurance.

Not really resolved the issue of where DS will park - I'd quite like not to have to move DS's car so I can get off the drive but I also don't want to annoy my neighbours by making everyone shunt up to make room on the already chock-a-block street.

This smacks a bit of thinking of your DS as a kid who doesn't have the same right to adult resources. I know it will annoy your neighbours simply because it's change that affects them negatively. But they've been lucky to date. I bet they aren't all one car households. Your DS is just as entitled to street parking as they are.

Why can't you DS's car be the one blocked in by yours, until he's going out with it?

Because OP told the insurers that her (new and expensive) car would be parked on her driveway.

@NumberTheory

You're right, DS should have the right to park wherever he can, I just remember when we moved in talking to my NDN about what it was like living here. I knew there would be issues because there is a takeaway and a shop right opposite but my NDN didn't mention these, she just indicated slightly diagonal towards the house next to the takeaway and said "they think they own the place with parking". Once we'd been here a little while, I noticed the household was a single mum of 3 (I think) teen/grown boys who all own cars.

I've never forgotten that, and don't want to be the problem house - actually, I'm super quiet and keep to myself (particularly as I work nights).