I'm usually not unreasonable, but is my judgment clouded?

[MrsKellySeveride]

Hi all knowing Mumsnetters

I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable regarding DS17 and car insurance.

Bit of background - DS17 lives 99% of the time with me, visiting his Dad occasionally overnight (this has gone from once EOW for a good number of years when DS was younger, to nil over the last 2-3 years as DS truly saw who his Dad was as a person and didn't like it much, to once every few weeks as DS has started working for his Dad (I could write a whole other thread on this but DS views it as due to the fact that his Dad only pays £14/week maintenance as he's self employed and can basically declare whatever he likes, it's a way of getting some money out of his Dad in a job that he does quite like) and some shifts start early or finish late.

DS has been learning to drive, both with an instructor (which DS pays for mainly but with me helping him out if he's short for whatever reason) and in my car, for which I pay quite a hefty sum as it's a new car and he's on a provisional licence. He has a practical test booked for mid Jan which could go either way due to DS being a little too over confident but generally a pretty safe driver.

Now, here's the problem - DS's Dad has acquired (someone he knows was upgrading so he got it cheap, but whatever, it is still very generous) a car for DS for Christmas. It's old but pretty reasonable for a first car (originally, his Dad wanted to get him something much too big and powerful for a new driver which would have cost £8000+ to insure until I stepped in and said no). He has arranged MOT, tax and recovery and the vehicle is insured for drivers with a full driving licence through his business vehicle insurance. DS's Dad has asked that I research insurance (he has offered to pay half) for DS to be able to drive the car whilst learning with me in the vehicle as he's here the majority of the time. I've currently not got the headspace for this as I work full time 12 hour nights with very little in the way of back-up. I have asked that ExH sorts out insurance as it isn't fair that his gift puts more work and responsibility onto me and potentially costs me, although he has said he will reimburse me.

DS is really excited about this and I can see that it is a really generous gift for a 17yr old. Obviously, he wants to bring the car home and start practicing in it once it is insured but I feel that I have already arranged for insurance for him on a (my) car and already giving quite a lot of time supervising him. I have asked that the car remains at his Dad's until he passes his test and is properly insured.

ExH has said I am unreasonable for not wanting to sort more insurance out on a car I have had nothing to do with the purchase of because "he lives with you". We also got into a bit of a heated discussion, (although not an argument as I will not be drawn into a slanging match, I've been doing the single parent thing for 15 years, I'm way past arguments) because I only have 1 space to park on my drive and ExH thinks the DS's car should be parked on the drive and mine on the road so that I'm not having to move 2 cars about to get on and off my drive.

I'm really trying to be gracious and grateful on DS's behalf but can't help but feeling his gift to DS should not adversely impact my life so much. I have explained that it will be at least the first week of January before I have the time to look at insurance properly which is potentially only 2 weeks away from DS's test!

Sorry about the jumbled thoughts, this is how my life is working nights and waking up to problems which I haven't brought on myself!!

Thanks for reading and Happy Boxing Day!!

@colourfulpuddles

YABU. It’s just insurance. And you had no right to stop your ex buying whatever car he wanted to buy his son.

It’s also not acceptable for you to say DS can’t bring his own car to his own house.

Well he can't can he? Because the person who brought the car hasn't insured it or say next to them for them to drive it home.

It's not the OP responsibility to do anything with what he dad buys )as you say she has no right to dictate what he buys and I agree).

The same way his dad didn't take responsibility for sorting insurance on OPs car for her to teach their son.

OP you are not being unreasonable.

Just say when he sorts insurance and gets the car home you'll be happy to support him - then leave da and his dad to it.

@PegasusReturns

it’s just insurance

I assume @colourfulpuddles that you don’t have teenagers who require car insurance? My eldest’s insurance cost the guts of £3500.

I’d also bet that the fleet insurance won’t cover a new 17 year old driver,

I've done a provisional search (I'm not 100% on the why's and wherefore's as I can't quite get my head around who owns the car? All I know, it's definitely not me 😂 It's coming back as approx £1800 with me as a named driver but I'm a bit confused as DS has a provisional license so am I the named driver or am I responsible for the car being the full-licence holder? Even £1800 seems steep considering he could have a full licence himself by next month.

I genuinely have not idea if the fleet insurance does truly cover a new, 17yr old driver and I don't fully trust ExH to ensure it does. He owns upwards of 30 vehicles (some very specialist to the type of business) so his insurance is probably already a trillion pounds.

I feel like I don't have the full information to be able to give accurate answers to the insurance company and guessing is not going to be acceptable.

If I've not got the full information, how on earth can DS understand the questions when looking at insurance?

I'm exhausted at always being the bad guy... always the un-fun Mum.

@Cuck00soup

Although I’m inclined to agree it’s not your issue, if you want to sort this for a quiet life, you could try marmalade juice.

They do insurance for teen’s with provisional licences to drive their parent’s cars. You can pay month by month which is good if it’s just for a few weeks.

I use Marmalade for DS to be insured on my car but the do t do insurance for teenagers to learn in their own car, just parents. I've already put a hefty amount of time into this "I'm not getting involved" project!!

Like PP, I would be very surprised if the fleet insurance covers a 17 year old new driver.

DS had learner insurance from Collingwood: you could get a month or multiple weeks. It was his car but the app let me have control with DS’s consent

Out of interest, following on from a couple of replies, would you be happy for your 17yr old novice driver to drive such a powerful car? I've been driving 25yrs + and am pretty confident but even I wouldn't drive a 2L turbo diesel estate in semi rural Greater Manchester! Just asking to be pulled out of a ditch (18yrs as a critical care nurse may have made me slightly over sensitive to dead / half-dead teenagers).

I'm being a bit flippant but such a powerful car really frightened me. I'm much happier with the 1L fiesta he's bought!

@MrsKellySeveride, am I missing something?

Son is excited to have his own car (should he pass) understandable

His car needs to be on drive whilst uninsured, yours over the driveway, on the road.

Insurance should be arranged by Dad and son for the newer car.

As you have already arranged the legal option for your son to continue practising/learning, I totally agree that you need do no more than that.

[quote beetr00]@MrsKellySeveride, am I missing something?

Son is excited to have his own car (should he pass) understandable

His car needs to be on drive whilst uninsured, yours over the driveway, on the road.

Insurance should be arranged by Dad and son for the newer car.

As you have already arranged the legal option for your son to continue practising/learning, I totally agree that you need do no more than that.[/quote]
As you can imagine, my car insurance states that it's kept on the drive. Not overly excited about my £30,000, brand new car to be on the road but I do get that this is the area that is tipping me over the edge of unreasonablenesses.

Tell your ex the car can’t be on the drive because your own insurance says your car needs to be on the drive. And there’s only one space which your car is on.

Explain this to DS too.

I’m sure DS and his dad can sort this out!

@MrsKellySeveride

Ah ok, I understand, you have beautiful, shiny

I respect your dilemma

I wouldn't be surprised if your new £30k car is exactly why your ex is being a dick about!!

@MrsKellySeveride

Hi all knowing Mumsnetters

I'm wondering if I'm being unreasonable regarding DS17 and car insurance.

Bit of background - DS17 lives 99% of the time with me, visiting his Dad occasionally overnight (this has gone from once EOW for a good number of years when DS was younger, to nil over the last 2-3 years as DS truly saw who his Dad was as a person and didn't like it much, to once every few weeks as DS has started working for his Dad (I could write a whole other thread on this but DS views it as due to the fact that his Dad only pays £14/week maintenance as he's self employed and can basically declare whatever he likes, it's a way of getting some money out of his Dad in a job that he does quite like) and some shifts start early or finish late.

DS has been learning to drive, both with an instructor (which DS pays for mainly but with me helping him out if he's short for whatever reason) and in my car, for which I pay quite a hefty sum as it's a new car and he's on a provisional licence. He has a practical test booked for mid Jan which could go either way due to DS being a little too over confident but generally a pretty safe driver.

Now, here's the problem - DS's Dad has acquired (someone he knows was upgrading so he got it cheap, but whatever, it is still very generous) a car for DS for Christmas. It's old but pretty reasonable for a first car (originally, his Dad wanted to get him something much too big and powerful for a new driver which would have cost £8000+ to insure until I stepped in and said no). He has arranged MOT, tax and recovery and the vehicle is insured for drivers with a full driving licence through his business vehicle insurance. DS's Dad has asked that I research insurance (he has offered to pay half) for DS to be able to drive the car whilst learning with me in the vehicle as he's here the majority of the time. I've currently not got the headspace for this as I work full time 12 hour nights with very little in the way of back-up. I have asked that ExH sorts out insurance as it isn't fair that his gift puts more work and responsibility onto me and potentially costs me, although he has said he will reimburse me.

DS is really excited about this and I can see that it is a really generous gift for a 17yr old. Obviously, he wants to bring the car home and start practicing in it once it is insured but I feel that I have already arranged for insurance for him on a (my) car and already giving quite a lot of time supervising him. I have asked that the car remains at his Dad's until he passes his test and is properly insured.

ExH has said I am unreasonable for not wanting to sort more insurance out on a car I have had nothing to do with the purchase of because "he lives with you". We also got into a bit of a heated discussion, (although not an argument as I will not be drawn into a slanging match, I've been doing the single parent thing for 15 years, I'm way past arguments) because I only have 1 space to park on my drive and ExH thinks the DS's car should be parked on the drive and mine on the road so that I'm not having to move 2 cars about to get on and off my drive.

I'm really trying to be gracious and grateful on DS's behalf but can't help but feeling his gift to DS should not adversely impact my life so much. I have explained that it will be at least the first week of January before I have the time to look at insurance properly which is potentially only 2 weeks away from DS's test!

Sorry about the jumbled thoughts, this is how my life is working nights and waking up to problems which I haven't brought on myself!!

Thanks for reading and Happy Boxing Day!!

sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you but this is called fronting and as such is illegal!

your ex cant have the car on his insurance while at the same time it being covered in your name with your son as a learner on it, because if something where to happen there is a possibility that a claim could be duplicated, that is how the insurance companies see it anyway. so the car is either insured at your home in your name with son added onto it and then once he passes his test you would then have to do a "paper sale" where you simply appear to have sold the car to your ex for him to then add it onto his company vehicle policy, but i would want to see that policy to make sure that your son would even be covered before agreeing anything, because i doubt he would be as company policies are normally only for over 25 yrs of age

i would also be asking who is going to be paying out for servicing of the car and the cost of repairs, or you could end up with paying out a lot of money

and last of all you need to get all this info in writing BEFORE agreeing to anything

@RandomMess

I wouldn't be surprised if your new £30k car is exactly why your ex is being a dick about!!

His Dad is (secretly) loaded. My shiny Peugeot is probably an embarrassment in his eyes but I've worked so hard to afford the things I want and provide DS with literally everything except a car (although, I'd even done that - DS's child trust fund has been religiously topped up every month by me so he can buy something pretty decent car-wise in May when he's 18).

He's Dad has boasted to DS that he pays the minimum he can maintenance wise.

Not my circus though!

Best get ready for work, thankyou for all thoughts and contributions x

This is all so impractical. Why does he need a car? Is it to drive to his dad's? Once he can drive he just needs to take his chances with street parking. You could have years of "could you just move your car..?" otherwise! (Ever seen Butterflies?) And your neighbours will hate it

@takenforgrantednana - thanks! So, it would appear that the fact that the car is already insured to be driven by any full-licence holders means I can't get it insured for me to supervise DS before he passes?

That's very informative as I would never have guessed I'd be breaking the law to insure the car, I just didn't want to be involved!

Back in your court, ExH!!

Yanbu dad sorts insurance when needed as dad bought the car...

@takenforgrantednana

surely it won't be fronting if new car has Dad as named driver with son as additional UNTIL son passes his practical.

Only then, it will have to be transferred to son as primary?

@MrsKellySeveride has also provided a legal option for her son to also continue learning in her car.

Son therefore has two cars in which to learn. Legally insured both?

@Drunkpanda

This is all so impractical. Why does he need a car? Is it to drive to his dad's? Once he can drive he just needs to take his chances with street parking. You could have years of "could you just move your car..?" otherwise! (Ever seen Butterflies?) And your neighbours will hate it

Funny you should ask! His Dad lives 45 minutes away. Since DS started working for him, his Dad has been collecting him for work. When SS chose to work for his Dad ) like I say, a whole other story!) I ensured they both knew the running about wasn't going to be down to me. I can't do a 12 hour night shift then drive DS to work before driving home again. His Dad has been asking more and more (via DS) if I can take him otherwise DS can't work. I've fallen for it twice but he lefts us waiting in a compound for 1.5hours last week at 7am - I've said never again.

DS also goes to college out of area but there's a bus to there.

[quote MrsKellySeveride]@takenforgrantednana - thanks! So, it would appear that the fact that the car is already insured to be driven by any full-licence holders means I can't get it insured for me to supervise DS before he passes?

That's very informative as I would never have guessed I'd be breaking the law to insure the car, I just didn't want to be involved!

Back in your court, ExH!! [/quote]
yep exactly that. but dont forget the other points i raised too

Don't even bother telling him why just tell them both.

"Nope, that doesn't work for me."

[quote beetr00]@takenforgrantednana

surely it won't be fronting if new car has Dad as named driver with son as additional UNTIL son passes his practical.

Only then, it will have to be transferred to son as primary?

@MrsKellySeveride has also provided a legal option for her son to also continue learning in her car.

Son therefore has two cars in which to learn. Legally insured both?[/quote]
surely it won't be fronting if new car has Dad as named driver with son as additional UNTIL son passes his practical. - you wont get insurance with son as the main driver! the dad would have to be the main driver with the son added

Only then, it will have to be transferred to son as primary? and if its transferred the ownership then just how on earth is it a company vehicle? and how can it be added to the companies insurance?

@MrsKellySeveride has also provided a legal option for her son to also continue learning in her car.

Son therefore has two cars in which to learn. Legally insured both? nope legally insured for one car

out of interest just what make and model is the car his dad has found for him?

Yeo has PP has already said the car is olalready covered by an insurance policy if is a work vehicle. You can get fleet policy to cover under 25 but with an extra excess generally. I doubt they will cover a 17 year old and gets a bit messy as to whether the vehicle is provided by employer etc...

best to stop existing cover and take out a new policy in your sons name for him to gain no claims bonus. If your son is old enough to drive he is old enough to research insurance.

@takenforgrantednana

out of interest just what make and model is the car his dad has found for him?

She's already said it's a fiesta

Also.. of course you should have a say as to what your son is driving if he is living with you and you are his legal guardian.