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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Don't Call An Ambulance

88 replies

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/12/2021 23:20

After yet another thread where a poster has described symptoms that are red flags for cardiac events and YET ANOTHER poster has told them they're an expert and it'll be nothing - which it very well could be, but it might not - I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be overreacting for MN to add 'Giving dangerous medical advice that could result in harm to a poster or family member' as a reason for banning posters.

I'm aware that this could be deemed a TAAT, but it's a serious matter that isn't confined to just one single occurrence. And I'll likely get mullered on here by the people who are so absolutely certain of their psychic abilities that they can't comprehend that their 'no, that symptom that is indicative of a heart attack/stroke/sepsis/cancer is just anxiety/menopause/a cold/need of moisturiser/a paracetamol' could lead to an unnecessary death or disability.

I think it's important enough to take any flak. MN can achieve great things, but can also be outright dangerous whilst it's seen as acceptable to do this.

If I'm coming on too strong here (obviously, I don't think I am), could MNHQ consider having a standard reply as they do for depression/self harm, don't offer money to sad stories or suchlike and have one for symptoms of chest pain, one for burns, etc?

OP posts:
Jojobees · 25/12/2021 23:27

👏 well said. I totally agree with every word you’ve said. MNHQ should try to stop dangerous advice.

lkandb · 25/12/2021 23:27

As far as I can see MNHQ have posted a warning on the thread.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/12/2021 23:32

@lkandb

As far as I can see MNHQ have posted a warning on the thread.
It's a little woolly - 'nothing beats' getting medical advice. That's on a par (again, in my opinion) with saying fresh milk is probably better than UHT.

I think it should have proper advice - like the posts giving links to organisations for those experiencing thoughts of self harm do.

OP posts:
lkandb · 25/12/2021 23:34

"It's a little woolly - 'nothing beats' getting medical advice. That's on a par (again, in my opinion) with saying fresh milk is probably better than UHT.

I think it should have proper advice - like the posts giving links to organisations for those experiencing thoughts of self harm do."

Yeah that's a fair point @NeverDropYourMooncup

Hapoydayz · 25/12/2021 23:34

Well said

pluggee · 25/12/2021 23:35

Yes it's a weird phenomenon on MNs that you shouldn't call an ambulance unless you are already dead 🤷🏻‍♀️

horizontilting · 25/12/2021 23:35

On a wholly different note, the memory of a thread where posters alerted the OP about extremely heavy menstrual bleeding being a sign of sepsis got me going to A and E earlier this year (where I was diagnosed with sepsis).

I just wanted to mention how grateful I am for that.

Angrymum22 · 25/12/2021 23:36

Anyone who turns to mums et for health advice before consulting GP or seeking advise from 111 is a little misguided from the outset.

endofagain · 25/12/2021 23:37

I agree OP. I think there should be a sticky post advising that if people really want health advice in this kind of situation, 111 and the NHS website is a better option.
I have seen some very good advice on here, but also some really dangerous advice from people claiming to be HCPs, which is unforgivable IMO.

SnarkyBag · 25/12/2021 23:42

I agree and I also think they should remove most of the posts on threads relating to scolds and burns it’s honestly quite shocking some of the advice that gets posted on those threads.

MagnoliaXYZ · 25/12/2021 23:42

I completely agree with you. I reported that one specific post as I thought it was very dangerous advice from a supposed healthcare professional.

MaxNormal · 25/12/2021 23:45

Thank you OP, needs to be said.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/12/2021 23:47

@endofagain

I agree OP. I think there should be a sticky post advising that if people really want health advice in this kind of situation, 111 and the NHS website is a better option. I have seen some very good advice on here, but also some really dangerous advice from people claiming to be HCPs, which is unforgivable IMO.
Still too woolly for me. How about a standard post using NHS advice each time so it's visible and unequivocal on the actual thread?

Most chest pain is not a sign of anything serious but you should get medical advice just in case. Get immediate medical help if you think you're having a heart attack.

Call 999 if:
You have sudden chest pain that:

spreads to your arms, back, neck or jaw
makes your chest feel tight or heavy
also started with shortness of breath, sweating and feeling or being sick
lasts more than 15 minutes
You could be having a heart attack. Call 999 immediately as you need immediate treatment in hospital.

Stroke

If you suspect you or someone else is having a stroke, phone 999 immediately and ask for an ambulance.

Even if the symptoms disappear while you're waiting for the ambulance, it's still important to go to hospital for an assessment.

Symptoms of a stroke that disappear quickly and in less than 24 hours may mean you had a transient ischaemic attack (TIA).

These symptoms should also be treated as a medical emergency to reduce the chances of having another stroke.

The main stroke symptoms can be remembered with the word FAST:

Face – the face may have dropped on 1 side, the person may not be able to smile, or their mouth or eye may have drooped.
Arms – the person may not be able to lift both arms and keep them there because of weakness or numbness in 1 arm.
Speech – their speech may be slurred or garbled, or the person may not be able to talk at all despite appearing to be awake; they may also have problems understanding what you're saying to them.
Time – it's time to dial 999 immediately if you notice any of these signs or symptoms.

Burns

Treating burns and scalds
To treat a burn, follow the first aid advice below:

immediately get the person away from the heat source to stop the burning
cool the burn with cool or lukewarm running water for 20 minutes – do not use ice, iced water, or any creams or greasy substances like butter
remove any clothing or jewellery that's near the burnt area of skin, including babies' nappies, but do not move anything that's stuck to the skin
make sure the person keeps warm by using a blanket, for example, but take care not to rub it against the burnt area
cover the burn by placing a layer of cling film over it – a clean plastic bag could also be used for burns on your hand
use painkillers such as paracetamol or ibuprofen to treat any pain
if the face or eyes are burnt, sit up as much as possible, rather than lying down – this helps to reduce swelling
if it's an acid or chemical burn, dial 999, carefully try to remove the chemical and any contaminated clothing, and rinse the affected area using as much clean water as possible

When to get medical attention
Depending on how serious a burn is, it may be possible to treat it at home.

For minor burns, keep the burn clean and do not burst any blisters that form.

More serious burns require professional medical attention.

You should go to a hospital A&E department for:

all chemical and electrical burns
large or deep burns – any burn bigger than the injured person's hand
burns that cause white or charred skin – any size
burns on the face, hands, arms, feet, legs or genitals that cause blisters
If someone has breathed in smoke or fumes, they should also seek medical attention.

Some symptoms may be delayed and can include:

coughing
a sore throat
difficulty breathing
facial burns
People at greater risk from the effects of burns, such as children under 5 years old and pregnant women, should also get medical attention after a burn or scald.

OP posts:
nonotquite · 25/12/2021 23:47

Oh I think this was my thread. Thank you I really appreciate your threat. Being an anxiety sufferer I often worry I'm overthinking or over dramatising things.. but I've never ever felt anything like what I'm experiencing now.

I am currently awaiting a call back from the clinical team.

nonotquite · 25/12/2021 23:47

Your thread ** sorry

Sideswiped · 25/12/2021 23:50

YANBU. The ever-righteous posters who proclaim you should never call an ambulance except in the case of your head being amputated should give their heads a shake.
I often wonder if they've ever been in the awful situation of fearing for someone else's life as their responses suggest not - I suspect that if they were, they'd be the first on the phone to dial 999.
According to them, even if a small child is seriously ill, you should bundle them into a car and take them, on your own, to A&E, regardless of your worry that something terrible might happen on the way.
(And of course they possess a crystal ball to forecast the outcome, meanwhile having fuck all knowledge or expertise in the area concerned.)

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/12/2021 23:50

@nonotquite

Oh I think this was my thread. Thank you I really appreciate your threat. Being an anxiety sufferer I often worry I'm overthinking or over dramatising things.. but I've never ever felt anything like what I'm experiencing now.

I am currently awaiting a call back from the clinical team.

Your safety is important and please don't feel guilty - NHS advice is absolutely clear that you are doing the right thing Flowers.
OP posts:
Lex345 · 25/12/2021 23:51

I agree OP. I think what is scary is (I am trained as a nurse but quit earlier this year btw) most medical professionals will be very, very reluctant to hazard a guess a diagnosis online because it is working beyond your sphere of competence. I will happily advise people to seek medical advice, but there are a whole host of differential diagnoses in that thread and even doctors on 111 will not attempt a diagnosis over the phone for symptoms such as these-it would be negligent. I would be concerned about anyone claiming to be a medical professional who would say anything other than signposting to medical advice tbh.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 25/12/2021 23:52

When we thought dh was possibly having a stroke (was actually a weird migraine - he’d never had one before - that caused half his face to drop) I called an ambulance. Honestly, I wish I’d just put him in the car and driven him. They took so long to arrive it was scary. A few weeks later Dd had an anaphylactic reaction and I drove her because I didn’t trust them to arrive. In reality a dc struggling to breathe would be prioritised but after my previous scare, I couldn’t take that risk. Did get told off by ED doctors but Dd was fine.

I work in the nhs so know the pressure but it means the public are so desperate not to be a burden we try to avoid using the service when in reality they know we’re not medically trained so need a professional to advise. In the moment it’s hard to make the call so dial 111 and they will get an ambulance if needed.

forcedfun · 25/12/2021 23:57

@nonotquite I hope it all turns out ok, but you are doing the right thing - far better to get it checked.

Op I totally agree with you.

I think there is a weird culture among some parts of the population, where some people are really hesitant to ever call an ambulance/seek urgent help.

I will never forget looking after my newborn when she's grandfather (in his 90s) had a fall getting out of the car. I assumed DH family were calling an ambulance. I finished getting baby to sleep and came out to find DH grandfather sat on a chair in the hall looking an awful shade of grey. And everyone else busy sorting the Christmas dinner! I asked if ambulance was on its way and they looked at me like I was mad. I had to push hard to get them to call and when they did they just rang 111 and apologised profusely for troubling them... Thankfully 111 sent an ambulance ! He had broken both hips and was very unwell

gogohm · 25/12/2021 23:57

I do agree op but in many cases the people posting are aware it's not that serious but are unsure if they should wait until the gp opens or seek out of hours gp service. In most cases I personally would suggest if you can get yourself/your child to hospital safely (ie not if a serious suspected fracture) it's usually quicker to drive. We have a walk in gp service 24/7 at the hospital site so you aren't interfering with the hospital work

forcedfun · 26/12/2021 00:00

In the moment it’s hard to make the call so dial 111 and they will get an ambulance if needed.

This is good advice. And the 111 online is good too. Also you can call 999 if you tvinj it is needed and they won't send an ambulance out unnecessarily - they will talk you through the situation and advise if they think an ambulance not needed

needmoreshinys · 26/12/2021 00:01

I often think that I should post something like

My medical knowledge comes from watching every episode of House, so its probably not lupas.

But most of the posts are people who are worried and not sure what they should do.

I think MNs needs to do a lot more, with regards to people saying they are a profession and giving advice, whether that is medical, legal or whatever,

forcedfun · 26/12/2021 00:02

@NeedAHoliday2021 in my experience ambulances can take a while for other things but whenever my son has had anaphylaxis/possible anaphylaxis they have arrived very quickly. Of course, use EpiPen then dial 999.

forcedfun · 26/12/2021 00:04

@needmoreshinys agreed. I see awful advice given on legal queries and (as a lawyer) can spot all the other actually knowledgeable posters, but that would often be far trickier for the op