Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Don't Call An Ambulance

88 replies

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/12/2021 23:20

After yet another thread where a poster has described symptoms that are red flags for cardiac events and YET ANOTHER poster has told them they're an expert and it'll be nothing - which it very well could be, but it might not - I'm beginning to think that it wouldn't be overreacting for MN to add 'Giving dangerous medical advice that could result in harm to a poster or family member' as a reason for banning posters.

I'm aware that this could be deemed a TAAT, but it's a serious matter that isn't confined to just one single occurrence. And I'll likely get mullered on here by the people who are so absolutely certain of their psychic abilities that they can't comprehend that their 'no, that symptom that is indicative of a heart attack/stroke/sepsis/cancer is just anxiety/menopause/a cold/need of moisturiser/a paracetamol' could lead to an unnecessary death or disability.

I think it's important enough to take any flak. MN can achieve great things, but can also be outright dangerous whilst it's seen as acceptable to do this.

If I'm coming on too strong here (obviously, I don't think I am), could MNHQ consider having a standard reply as they do for depression/self harm, don't offer money to sad stories or suchlike and have one for symptoms of chest pain, one for burns, etc?

OP posts:
Tabbacus · 26/12/2021 04:40

It's not a medical forum, it would be a shame if all of the threads were deleted because some might not apply any common sense and listen to a bunch of strangers. Some threads are useful though. Most threads where people say about ambulances is when a) It'd be a million percent quicker to drive and its safe to do so b) its not an emergency response. Its not appropriate to say yes if unsure call an ambulance as if everyone did that they'd be waiting 10 hours for one to arrive when they could have gone in and be seen by then. How do you propose MN moderate these threads? And how many people said to the OP to seek help?

Bagadverts · 26/12/2021 05:15

I agree about adding a reply from MN. There is some dangerous advice. As with a lot of threads the tone can be set by the first few posts. Can also be derailed .

This can be a link to NHS website. They may be reluctant to add text about specific symptoms or treatment such as burns in case it changes. Maybe they could say from NHS as at 26 Dec 2021, please check NHS website for updates.

I know some posters have got advice on the basis of threads that may have been life saving. I worry that if a poster follows advice to not call 999 and it is wrong they wouldn’t come back.

ThesecondLEM · 26/12/2021 05:24

The "nurse" on that thread has broken her code of conduct, if not the law.

As a veterinary nurse I am not allowed to offer diagnosis, I would be struck off the register. I can say, those symptoms need to be checked by a vet to rule out xyz but that's it. I can make an observation but diagnosis, absolutely not.

One would imagine these rules are more stringent for humans!

Furthermore, even a Dr would be on very dodgy grounds making a diagnosis based on a mn thread. That's pretty much why you don't see many Dr's comment. I bet there are a fair few sitting on their fingers mind.

londonrach · 26/12/2021 07:29

Husband had the start of septics a few weeks ago. 111 never called him back and we tried three times. Didn't want to waste an ambulance so went to a and e to be done five hours wait. He removed his mask and showed the problem...he was seen and treated in minutes

londonrach · 26/12/2021 07:32

Don't waste time re septics...I can be quick ..we should have called an ambulance looking back. The five hour wait was to be triaged. We were lucky that the removal of the mask and me saying suspect septics got the help he needed. He was vvv ill for two weeks and still not right.

ViceLikeBlip · 26/12/2021 07:33

Anyone who has access to mumsnet also has access to the NHS website 🤷‍♀️ I think a simple disclaimer that nothing on this site is proper medical advice is sufficient.

GemmaRuby · 26/12/2021 07:43

YANBU - there should definitely be some kind of disclaimer, especially about urgent situations.

However I don’t agree with your suggestion that MNHQ should post specific advice from the NHS website (e.g. for burns or whatever). Because then they would be responsible for finding the correct advice, ensuring it was up to date etc. And could potentially cause harm and liability by accidentally giving the wrong advice.

In non-urgent situations, MN can be very useful for advice, reassurance and signposting.

PAFMO · 26/12/2021 07:50

@ViceLikeBlip

Anyone who has access to mumsnet also has access to the NHS website 🤷‍♀️ I think a simple disclaimer that nothing on this site is proper medical advice is sufficient.
I agree. Frankly, if someone is sitting next to you having what could be a heart attack and you're posting on MN asking what to do, then you're not going to sit and digest lengthy advice copied over from the NHS, but you might just read a terse one liner saying "nobody on here is a confirmed medical expert, why not try one of those instead".
Vanishun · 26/12/2021 07:52

Sort of wish you could change the thread title. It sort of stuck out at me as an imperative. The kind of thing that can unconsciously remind you not to do something when you mean the opposite!

GoodPrincessWenceslas · 26/12/2021 07:56

I remember one thread where it turned out that the poster who had been told by a number of people not to call an ambulance turned out to be very seriously ill indeed; if she hadn't called the ambulance when she did it's pretty certain she would have died. Yet even after she had come back some time later and expressed her gratitude to the people who told her to call, there were still people who hadn't bothered to read the OP's posts telling her not to waste precious NHS resources.

Tiramesu · 26/12/2021 08:31

In the same breath, people should.not be posting on Mumsnet to ask if they are a medical emergency...!

Thisisworsethananticpated · 26/12/2021 08:41

If people are stupid enough to take advice from a website rather than call NHS 111…….

LSLLM · 26/12/2021 08:53

Why are people so funny about calling an ambulance? My recent first aid course I was horrrifed to see the whole room think there was no need to call an ambulance if they saw someone have an epileptic seizure. Wtf. It’s in my daughters care plan - ambulance immediately.

Just phone the bloody service, they can be the judge of the priority

VaccineSticker · 26/12/2021 09:01

It’s called the syndrome of self professed doctors on mumsnet, symptoms include struggling to understand & teach year 5/6 Maths in lockdown but are “perfect” in giving in a medical emergency including an extensive knowledge about infection related diseases.

Stopsnowing · 26/12/2021 09:11

Two things. Op maybe consider changing the title of this and secondly I had very dangerous advice from 111 about letting dd sleep (took her instead to a and e and she had pneumonia) so I would always say at least go to a and e especially for young children if you are worried.

FlibbertyGiblets · 26/12/2021 09:22

What would be the protocol; how would HQ be alerted - they don't walk the boards, so to speak, being a post moderated org.
Report the thread like the suicide threats ones would be best, probabably?

Tabbacus · 26/12/2021 09:27

@LSLLM

Why are people so funny about calling an ambulance? My recent first aid course I was horrrifed to see the whole room think there was no need to call an ambulance if they saw someone have an epileptic seizure. Wtf. It’s in my daughters care plan - ambulance immediately.

Just phone the bloody service, they can be the judge of the priority

I think a lot of people think of them as taxis of sort- or a fast track through A&E when that isn't the case. The point of them is to be able to provide life saving care on the way to hospital, or pain relief if very serious pain and/or if someone has an injury which means they either can't travel by car or it would be dangerous to do so. They're not supposed to be well its a pain in the arse to get there so I'll call, or I'll get seen quicker in hospital (which isn't true). Also with epilepsy it depends on the person and their care plan. Of course if people don't know they should err on the side of caution and call, or if they injured when falling or its prolonged etc, but for some they don't need to go to hospital every time.
CovidCorvid · 26/12/2021 09:29

@ENDOFMESSAGE

Asking for medical advice on social media is a waste of time. Walk-in centre is ideal or even 111 for triage (who will likely just say to go to the walk-in centre). Even a Google search is more reliable.
Problem is not every area has a walk in centre. It’s a&e or nothing. 111 can take hours to call back. Or sometimes just not call back at all which is what happened to me when I last called them. They rang me back once with a non medical person, said it was serious and that a a medical person would ring back. Still waiting, 4 years now!
CovidCorvid · 26/12/2021 09:31

This is the sticky on top of the health board.

“ Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have medical concerns, please seek medical attention; if you think your problem could be acute, do so immediately. Even qualified doctors can't diagnose over the internet, so do bear that in mind when seeking or giving advice

I think it’s quite clear. 🤷‍♀️

NeedAHoliday2021 · 26/12/2021 09:34

@forcedfun we didn’t have an epipen - totally out of the blue she made it to 9 years old having never eaten coconut so we had no idea. But the ambulance service had posted they were in critical incident on social the day before so I worried. I also felt very guilty calling the ambulance when I thought dh was having a stroke. I think the messaging trying to avoid wasting nhs time can be taken by different personalities differently and it means those who need it wait until too late.

DrDiva · 26/12/2021 10:23

The whole don’t waste the NHS’s time is certainly a powerful message. I had to phone one in April 2020 for a non-Covid reason - my vv tall DH had an accident, was screaming in pain, and I’m too small to help him get off the floor.
I still hesitated to call, that message was so strong. Of course, I did. The ambulance service was fantastic and NEVER made me feel I had wasted their time. In fact, he got upgraded partway through the call.

Pickles89 · 26/12/2021 10:26

If you're that dim that you don't go to hospital with chest pains because some randomer online told you not to bother, isn't that just natural selection?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/12/2021 10:27

Totally agree with you, OP - and while we're at it, could we have something similar for the constant amateur diagnoses of ADHD, etc?

nonotquite · 26/12/2021 10:35

@Pickles89

If you're that dim that you don't go to hospital with chest pains because some randomer online told you not to bother, isn't that just natural selection?
I wouldn't say I was dim for not going to hospital because someone told me not to 🤦🏼‍♀️ I actually was asking if anybody has ever experienced the same following the Moderna jab. I am on my way to A&E now.
Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 26/12/2021 10:39

Just because one poster says don't call doesn't mean the poster is a zombie who won't call one??..
Mn is absolutely amazing for quick medical advice... I've used it several times as well as waiting for the non medical 111 to call me back etc and calling doctor or whatever??

On my threads people have given advice I'm not a zombie I consider all with my own experience.

Many posters have thanked mn for urging them to get help when they need it and I've learned about many conditions from mumsnet.

More than the don't call an ambulance it worries me when posters try and shut down medical threads