To think the issue of poor white boys failing at school is overlooked?

[hibbledibble]

They have the worst outcome of any group.

I highly recommend watching H is for Harry, documentary film which is available currently on Netflix, and highlights this issue.

It's about a boy with SEN, including illiteracy, and his experience in a mainstream school over two years.

It brought tears to my eyes. It was great to see how much progress he made in small group teaching, but sad that his difficulties in class meant him eventually being excluded from the school, and there was not much information given as to what happened to him following this.

It's heartbreaking that this boy could have done really well with ongoing intense intervention, but that the barrier to this is funding. It seemed at the end that the school gave up on him, as he just spent time in the nursery.

I would be curious to hear others views.

Ok, point taken about the SEN, though this was not in fact mentioned in the programme, I had just assumed that an illiterate 11 year old must have sen. This may not be correct.

I don't doubt there is awareness from educators, but there doesn't seem to be much interest from the wider community or political interest. The statistics themselves are shocking.

I don't doubt that it is hard to tackle, but as some have said, it can be improved with correct funding and early intervention.

In the example given in H is for Harry, exclusion felt particularly sad, as they didn't give any follow up regarding him receiving a more appropriate school placement, or any achievement following exclusion. It gives the impression that he effectively ended his school career in year 8.

White, working-class boys are a huge focus in schools. Have been for at least as long as I’ve been teaching (over 15 years).

I remember years ago when my ds was in year six and a lot of his class took the eleven plus...it was interesting. The white middle class kids took it and the black and Asian kids and most of the children who were immigrants. The white working class kids on the whole didnt take it. It was fascinating really...not a money thing as it was free to sit the eleven plus and plenty of the kids who did take it came from families who couldn't afford tutoring and the parents were helping them.

I actually think the UK is quite odd in the sense that intelligence is often mocked and can make you a target for bullies. So strange really.

The British libraries need more comic books. They are the entry drug to real books. All the British libraries have are some Tintin, Asterix and a bit of anime and anime is most certainly not for kids. I mean it: I am sure that one of the reasons why Danish kids are doing so well in school is because they read more.

I feel sorry for British kids because they don't know the comic books with Lucky Luke, the smurfs, Valhalla, Valerian and Laureline, Spirou, Thorgal, Blueberry, Yoko Tsuno, or Agent 327. Hell, most of them haven't even read a comic book featuring Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse. Every summer when we go back to Denmark we go to Faraos Cigarer in Copenhagen and buy for a fortune in comic books. My husband and I are both academics and we have most certainly not outgrown them and both our kids love comic books too and are doing very well in school. My parents let me have their Shakespear comic book. It contains Hamlet, the Tempest, and Macbeth. The artist has also painted windows in churches and you can tell from the art in the book.

It seemed at the end that the school gave up on him

Completely disagree and we need to stop blaming the ‘schools’ ie teachers for this type of thing. They tried but you can’t force someone to learn. The barriers are there at home as others have pointed out. Sometimes it’s a loosing battle from the start. There are plenty of kids who struggle but are well behaved and want to learn, these should be prioritised.

@DeclareThePenniesOnYourEyes

White, working-class boys are a huge focus in schools. Have been for at least as long as I’ve been teaching (over 15 years).

I agree. Working class boys' writing was a massive focus about 10 years ago.

If it has been such a priority for so long, why are the outcomes still so bad? Is it simply due to a lack of funding?

I'd be interested to see his life pre-secondary. He went to secondary school barely able to read or write. His dad was illiterate himself and mum didn't seem to be on the scene?

The ending did say he was deciding which course to so at college. It was very odd not filling in the years between 8 and 11 though and just jumping to that.

For those talking about PP, he was in receipt of it but he was using up so much time in catching up that other children's PP was being used on him too which obviously wasn't sustainable. I felt for him when they put him back in the classroom, he wasn't ready, he couldn't keep up, of course he wasn't going to do his work as he didn't know how to!

@hibbledibble

If it has been such a priority for so long, why are the outcomes still so bad? Is it simply due to a lack of funding?

I do not particularly want to spend Christmas Day debating this but I feel it essentially boils down to parental engagement. There is no reason these children cannot learn, but there are some barriers which mean they don't.

@hibbledibble
The lack of funding is a huge issue. Sure start centres and support outside/pre school was helping change communities. However nowadays there is so little access to any external support and schools have more and more piled on them to be responsible for.

Improving the outcomes of white working class boys needs society change.

Fimofriend I so agree that high quality comic books/graphic novels are a solid way in to engaging young people in reading. I collect the Thorgal books diligently.

"How come x is better at English than me? They weren't even born here"
"I don't need any gcses. My (insert family member) didn't get any and they've got a good job. "
"What do I need to read this for? I don't like reading. "
"I've written a paragraph. Why do I need to write any more?"
"This is boring. Why do we have to do this?"

The attainment gap here is well-known and there are a huge number of factors which feed into it.

It isn't something that will garner political interest because there's no outrage about it and it's not an easy fix. Equally, the Government requires a not-insignificant number of adults being generated each year who haven't performed well academically and can go on to full the roles required in order to keep the economy running. Fixing the attainment gap would then give them a larger problem to fix.

There is a also limit to what a school can do. In my experience, the biggest issue contributing to the lower attainment in white working class boys is apathy in the home. I used to work in a large primary in an area of high deprivation which was also majority white. Parents could be grouped into three broad categories (each making up roughly a third of parents):

• those who recognised the importance of education and pushed their children (even going as far as to sign up to the parent English/Maths classes we ran if their own knowledge wasn't there),
• those who recognised school as something the child "had to" do but weren't overly bothered about attainment,
• those who genuinely didn't care how their child did, often stating things like: "I did crap at school and I'm fine so he doesn't need it."

We had huge problems with boys who openly, from a young age, would say: "I want to do what my dad does." when dad was long-term unemployed with no intention of getting a job. Academics didn't matter when a life on benefits was presented as a valid and simple option.

@WhatScratch

You know what helped poor white boys? Sure Start. A shame the Conservatives were voted in and cut the funding by two thirds.

They also forced ongoing (year on year) council budget cuts that has cut local authority’s funding to youth services by almost £1billion. This has also lead directly to halving funding for early intervention services.

www.ymca.org.uk/outofservice
www.ncb.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/news-opinion/councils-forced-halve-spending-early-help

If you care about poor, white boys maybe vote for someone who doesn’t go out of their way to cut funding to existing services designed to help them.

Just putting this here again in case anyone missed it.

Also, my first OFSTED was 2011 and the inspection focus was white working class boys reading skills.

I don’t find comic books that popular. We have them interspersed in bands and they’re not that sort after. I find it annoying that reluctant readers often get steered that way. Our kids read all sorts. Each kid has their own taste and I think supporting kids to find books they enjoy is key. A few might like comic books, many won’t.That and supporting them to gain stamina and confidence whilst reading quality books that increase in difficulty. Many kids get that at home, many don’t. Sadly I don’t think they get enough of it in school because there just isn’t the manpower.Many kids have zero books at home and schools are competing with Xboxes and phones that suck up free tine

I work with families for part of my job and during lockdown one of the parents asked about her (already very very challenged) white working class boy's routine. Her child has the same diagnosis as my child (actually slightly less severe), the same teacher, the same class. He's had more support because of course his behaviour is worse because he's a boy and it's tolerated until it's not. I sent her a couple of timetables, one very rigid, one completely unrigid. Suggestions for parenting resources that helped me.

Her response: LOL. He did absolutely nothing during lockdown. With a parent FT at home. Mine did lots (and actually got ahead) with two FT working parents. Juggling WFH and home schooling.

The culture of boys being poorly behaved and disruptive, socialised to take up space, expect a lot and do nothing, succeed when they don't work at school? It's not the school's fault. Football over books. Every time.

And IME the reason poor black children do better is because their parents expect more. Not the school's issue.

I started teaching in the early 2000s and wc white boys were the biggest underperforming group then.

I think there are many social and educational issues at play here that haven’t been addressed and are unlikely to be in the near future

Society attitudes have a role to play.

“Boys will be boys” and having lower expectations for boys behaviourally and academically becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Book snobbery doesn’t help either, it doesn’t matter what someone is reading as long as they are reading. If someone feels pushed to read what they don’t enjoy it’s going to be counter productive.

I agree there is an issue but my overriding memory of boys in my school is that they tried to disrupt the class and sexual harassment towards the girls... Also booze and weed... 🤷‍♀️

You need a variety of texts which costs money and kids need support to pick texts that boost their confidence and keep them reading.They also need people hearing them read and talking about what they’re reading. Again it costs money.

@hibbledibble

If it has been such a priority for so long, why are the outcomes still so bad? Is it simply due to a lack of funding?

Because it doesn't fit with the persistent tropes of the patriarchy and white male privilege.

@hibbledibble

If it has been such a priority for so long, why are the outcomes still so bad? Is it simply due to a lack of funding?

Funding yes, but also parent guidance.

You’ve mentioned “poor white boys” and assuming they’re coming from backgrounds with lower socio economic statuses, for many ( though not all) a contributing factor may also be the parents themselves not having the education to support their children, or having to work long hours/many demands to stay afloat so not have as much time to support children or just may not focus on the value of education as much due to their own experiences.

Often minority parents put a big value on education, it’s not just a stereotype it’s an expectation that you will prioritise your education and it’s made a priority in the home. Similar for many white parents with a higher socio economic status.

Personally I think education can’t just be given in school anymore e.g. with classroom numbers growing, students can’t get the individual attention they might have gotten years back. There needs to be the right attitude/encouragement to learning at home too but unfortunately sometimes it’s just not possible.

As a teacher I’m told my focus should be on white boys and do lots of training to combat this situation.

But it is something that always makes me feel some kind of way.
I think it’s because they don’t have the same challenges that girls and other races do, yet I’m meant to put more effort into helping them than those who are already at a disadvantage.

I will of course do anything I can for all of my students but they have to take some responsibility themselves too.

I still don't understand the focus on better educating these lads when there are more realistic short term strategies. For example, huge problem of HGV driver shortage with a seriously aging workforce (average driver 55yo).

Companies are paying £50k+ for Class 1 drivers and this would IMO be a much more realistic option for a lot of young guys struggling in education with learning disabilities and possibly families that don't prioritise education. Moving forward they could be the next generation of transport managers or even HGV mechanics, which also pays well (our mechanics are on £41k basic with decent overtime paid too).