To not answer my phone when I’m annual leave?

[Elsiebear90]

I work in the NHS am clinical, fairly senior (band 7), started a new job in September and have witnessed and heard awful things about the management since I started. There is very high staff turnover in my department and morale is very low.

I have ten days of annual leave over the Xmas period, with two days during this where I am oncall. We all received an email today from our manager stating that as we have five members of staff off sick with Covid we need to be available over the Christmas period for work including additional on calls, which means some of us will have to come in when we’re on annual leave in the “worst case scenario”. Everyone I have spoken to has told me they just won’t answer their phones if called and that this could be prevented by the manager cancelling the outpatient clinics and/or diverting our emergency oncall service to a nearby hospital, which she apparently refuses to do.

My question is firstly does anyone with NHS knowledge know if she cancel our annual leave with next to no notice (she’s citing covid as an excuse for this) and also would it be unreasonable of me to not answer my phone if called?

My feelings are that it’s not really annual leave if the entire time I have to be available for work, I’m essentially oncall and not being paid to do so. I’ve seen online that NHS policy appears to be that adequate notice periods (length of annual leave plus one day) need to be applied and all other options exhausted before cancelling annual leave and this doesn’t seem to be the case here.

@PAFMO

How do you not know that of course NHS annual leave can be cancelled in an emergency? And you're clinical and "fairly senior"?

I have a feeling this manager's definition of an emergency may differ from most people's.

@Elsiebear90 Wow so you think people should have their annual leave cancelled last minute because a patient doesn’t want to wait a few more weeks for their yearly check up that they could have any time?

This isn't a great attitude tbh OP... I feel like you could meet your manager halfway given this is an emergency situation. If one or two of you offered to give up one day of AL and cover, could you maintain a service?

I also think the 'your a band 7/NHS worker so should suck it up' attitude on here is awful. The op has stated the manager has not made contingency plans, the only plan is to call people off AL.
My dept must operate, so we have a on call and reserve on call list with agreed cut off times. We have a back up for a back up plan and then further back up plans if the department can't operate at all. That is the managers job, not yours OP.
Would I answer a call? I would set out in an email in any way I would agree to be contacted with stated cut off times but only after contingency were in place

At 40k OP I'd be turning off my phone and not giving it a second thought. At 100k I'd think very differently but for 40k......
I'm surprised they gave you 10 days off over Christmas though especially when you're fairly new, but that's not your fault.

OP under NORMAL circumstances yes of course staff should have annual leave. But this isn’t normal circumstances- you are only being called in as colleagues off with covid issues and there is a huge staffing crisis.
Should say I am also a band seven in community and my team have had to make all kids of adjustments- including being on call over Christmas as we know some of the families we support will be in crisis.
Lead by example. And if you don’t want to do that move along and give someone else a shot.

The problem is for the foreseeable it’s not convenient for anyone in the NHS to take annual leave really. But people will need to take it at some point, the rest of this winter will be tough and everyone can’t be off in March or April. During the first year of the pandemic lots of people took no or little leave and that led to lots of problems. Especially when they started to book leave. Plus the NHS doesn’t have the financial resources to give people money instead of any annual leave, even if people wanted that and lm sure most won’t

Also two weeks is taking the piss. Fine if is manageable but in this situation it isn’t so some compromise should be made.

Also- what are too going to do if you are redeployed? If you had any sense you would make yourself invaluable to the team you are already in.

The manager may not be clinical but she is getting paid to manage, and this doesn’t sound like efficient management . If the deputies are clinical, they should be called in as the first line in an emergency- though it sounds as though your department generally handles routine, non-emergency care anyway.

If you’re on call, be available and check email. If you’re on leave, turn off notifications from work and have a glass of wine. If anyone deserves to take their annual leave it’s NHS staff.

Also- as I am really wound up about the level of ignorance shown- think about the below scenario:
Patient with health anxiety has appointment cancelled as no one willing to cut short their fortnights holiday.
Patient becomes more and more anxious.
Patient tries to see GP. GPs closed/ can’t get appointment.
Patients anxiety rises further.
Patient presents at already massively over stretched A and E.
Is it really a wise idea to ‘postpone’ appointments during the height of a public health crisis?

No you do not have to make yourself available when you are on booked annual leave. Nor can they insist that you remove yourself from your annual leave. Turn your phone off and forget about work. You need a good break for your own mental well-being. Don’t let the NHS emotionally guilt you into overworking yourself

Turn your phone off op or drink with breakfast every day.

Honestly everyone deserve leave. Unless op is front front line saving dying people there is no emergency for her to go in for and again those people who do the front front line stuff still deserve time off or they burn out and then there is nobody anyway.

No wonder the nhs is going gone down the drain. Treat the staff like shit and a population who believe every nurse and doctor should be on call forever.

Are you a member of a union? If so, I’d contact your local rep or their advice call centre for advice particular to your situation and role.

Is there any possibility that the patients you say 'prefer' to be seen in person actually cannot access remote appointments? I'm thinking of those with hearing issues, with low incomes, unsuitable accommodation for privacy, no experience of computers, for example?

They will have been almost unable to access care at all for 18 months.

I'd hope that, having had to go largely unseen for that length of time, once they finally get an appointment, it's not cancelled or takes five hours because staff needed to cover have refused to turn up. Especially when there is still a very real chance that a rebooked appointment will be cancelled due to covid/lockdown/pressure and the backlog will increase hugely from their need to be seen in the same clinic time as those already booked for later clinics.

Should say I am also a band seven in community and my team have had to make all kids of adjustments- including being on call over Christmas as we know some of the families we support will be in crisis.

That’s nothing to be proud of. Almost two years into the pandemic and you’re still calling in favours?! Smacks of bad management to me.

YANBU

Not calling in favours!! Staff THEMSELVES said they were doing it because they just have a very community focused approach and no that other times, when it is quiet, they get lots and lots of flexibility.

Know that!

@NeverDropYourMoonCup but how is that OP’s problem? That is an issue for the NHS to sort. Individuals shouldn’t have to bear the brunt of being emotionally guilted into working non stop without a break in the year.
If you’re so concerned that patients won’t get appointments, why don’t you volunteer over Christmas and help manage the backlog you speak of?

This thread has turned into OP bearing the whole weight of the NHS and covid crisis on their back

They don’t have to be on call as we also are not an emergency service, but for the greater good and to make life easier in January it is worth it.
What goes around comes around and I am a big believer if you pull together as a team when times are tough you will find you get a lot more support when you need help yourself further down the line.

I am just amazed you were given 10 days AL over Xmas with a pandemic on when so many staff may be off sick. Especially as in a new job.

NeverDropYourMoonCup Totally agree.
Senior management can’t just magic up extra staff from thin air. They rely on the staff they have to help them out. Yes it is shit but at the end of the day- these aren’t normal circumstances.

What if you were out of town for Christmas? You have taken annual leave to ensure that you can make plans.

Also if you are expected to work, due you get your annual leave days back? Or will you be paid for them?

I suppose it depends on the situation but most people when booking annual leave have plans, some of which involves travelling therefore you may not be available.

I’m nhs for a london organisation so we’re now In gold command and operating from the business continuity plan which does state annual leave can be cancelled. So it depends what’s in your services business continuity plan and if you are on gold command.
We have it managed well though. So we wouldn’t be called up while on annual leave but leave cancelled before it’s due to start.