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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers!

564 replies

MsFannySqueers · 20/12/2021 11:01

So retired/ex teachers are being asked to consider returning to the classroom because of possible staff shortages in the New Year. Is this something you would do?

OP posts:
manysummersago · 22/12/2021 14:02

The whole prevailing ethos now is that to remove the child from class teaching for core subjects just leads to them being further behind. Intervention is on top of, not in place of

We don’t have additional intervention but we are to keep students entitled to support in lessons, that’s why I wondered. Do they do it in free time then? Just interested.

MrsHamlet · 22/12/2021 14:03

Bob gets support in lessons if he has an EHCP. If he doesn't, he might get intervention in form time or has a reduced timetable to allow for it. He certainly doesn't miss lessons for intervention.

MrsHamlet · 22/12/2021 14:05

Actually that's not true. One of my students has such a reduced timetable that most if it might reasonably be called intervention. He's still in my lessons though, and his interventions are delivered by learning support

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 14:07

@MrsHamlet

Actually that's not true. One of my students has such a reduced timetable that most if it might reasonably be called intervention. He's still in my lessons though, and his interventions are delivered by learning support
So he has very little time with a qualified teacher?
Hercisback · 22/12/2021 14:09

We don't remove students for intervention, especially from core lessons. It just means they miss that lesson as well as whatever they've already missed.

We don't have the money, time for much else. Some staff offer after school sessions out of good will. Some LSAs do social interventions at lunch/break. Low literacy is dealt with in form time. Low maths isn't dealt with well at all.

manysummersago · 22/12/2021 14:10

No Pumper, that’s the opposite of what MrsH said Xmas Wink

MrsHamlet · 22/12/2021 14:11

That's right. There are complex reasons for that and it's not a situation I think is right but that is where we are.
Of course in England it is perfectly possible that many secondary aged students are being taught by people with no teaching qualification - which is a whole other can of worms

CallmeHendricksGingleBells · 22/12/2021 14:11

@Pumperthepumper, You appear to be conflating two different issues here.
The OP asked if ex-teachers (for whatever reason) would be willing to return to classrooms on a supply basis to plug the gaps left by current teachers who are off sick.
Why have you turned this into using ex-teachers to run interventions and catch-up sessions?

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 14:12

[quote CallmeHendricksGingleBells]@Pumperthepumper, You appear to be conflating two different issues here.
The OP asked if ex-teachers (for whatever reason) would be willing to return to classrooms on a supply basis to plug the gaps left by current teachers who are off sick.
Why have you turned this into using ex-teachers to run interventions and catch-up sessions?[/quote]
I guess because the conversation moved on?

CallmeHendricksGingleBells · 22/12/2021 14:14

Only because you changed the subject.

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 14:17

@CallmeHendricksGingleBells

Only because you changed the subject.
Just me? I apologise then.
Italiandreams · 22/12/2021 14:27

If we were using retired teachers as extra adults in the classroom to support with catch up that would be amazing, but that is not the idea being suggested. The idea would simply be to keep schools open, and that wouldn't last long when they catch Covid too! ( I obviously mean paying them properly and ensuring we keep all staff safe)

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 22/12/2021 14:41

@viques

They should have been more honest in their adverts.

Hello retired ,burnt out, incompetent, managed out, disillusioned - delete as appropriate - former teachers. As you know for the past thirty or so years successive governments have vilified and denigrated the teaching profession, blaming teachers for all life’s ills from teen anxiety , eating disorders and failure to speak a language other than English to county lines, at the same time we have turned your working lives upside down many times, introduced new policies at four o clock on a Friday afternoon to be implemented on Monday morning, we have tweaked your working conditions and allowed Academies to undermine your professionalism , your minimal qualifications and salaries. During the recent unpleasantness we lied about providing equipment for home learning, expected schools to provide PPE equipment from already depleted funds and refused vulnerable children access to meals. Since schools returned last September we have denied that schools are vectors for infection and have insisted that to maintain standards Ofsted inspectors will expect all children to have been learning and progressing at pre Covid closure levels.

But that is water under the bridge, we are all on a learning journey, and can move forward together.

For example , even we at the Department have recently learned that unaccountably, considering the care we have taken over recruitment and retention within the profession, that there is a shortage of teachers and even poorly paid supply teachers willing to stand in freezing cold classrooms and expose themselves to Covid from unvaccinated and untested children. It now appears likely that even factoring in putting all TAs, midday assistants and lollipop people in front of classes we will have a shortage of warm bodies come January. So, how about it? Why not come back into the profession you love, teach a curriculum you are unfamiliar with, learn how to do marking with green and purple pens, risk being vilified by an Ofsted inspection to breathe in the viral exhalations of anxious children . We will pay you a teeny tiny amount of money, completely unrelated to your experience and qualifications, and who knows, you might even be featured on national news as a Teacher Hero, wouldn’t that be something to mention to your grandchildren when they ask what you did in the Great Pandemic.

Formal applications not necessary, just turn up, please bring your own pritt sticks and pens.

Seems about right! A much better assessment.
manysummersago · 22/12/2021 15:03

Sorry - just interested.

VickyEadieofThigh · 22/12/2021 15:05

Has hell actually frozen over?

I wouldn't do this for 1000 quid a lesson. Moreover, sending in retired teachers to Covid factories - what could possibly go wrong?

Fredstheteds · 22/12/2021 15:10

Paid up SAHM taught within last 6 months, held a permeant post till 12 months ago. Current DBS on update...oh yes I have everything going for me....

But.... my sons nursery fees are £60 a day and I’ll get £100 minus my fuel etc... and oh I get the high chance of covid which I’ll pass on to my very vulnerable parents... then I’ll have no sick pay as I won’t get any or holiday pay....

No ta

borntobequiet · 22/12/2021 16:47

Teaching a child of secondary age how to read is a specialist skill in which secondary English teachers are not trained as the assumption is that children will arrive at secondary school able to read well enough to access the secondary curriculum.
The closure of many special schools for children with learning and other difficulties has created an enormous burden for mainstream secondary schools.

ChloeDecker · 22/12/2021 16:55

I’m not familiar with secondary in England, I’m in Scotland. I already said that.

So are you Primary or Secondary though-you keep dodging that one.

If you didn’t get your lunchbreak before COVID, how did you have space to fit in covid catch-up lessons specifically for children who have gaps in their education? What have you dropped to make space for that?

I genuinely don’t get this. Catch up is catch up on my syllabus/curriculum, whether or not it’s been due to Covid absences, other absences, student generally having difficulties and students not meeting their targets.
Students are not taken out of lessons to do this in my subject and never have been. If a pupil misses my lesson and is in school, it is usually because they have removed themselves to go to SEND for their mental health reasons, which as I have said before, should be a higher priority for the govt. to reduce this.

All support has to be done by me and my colleagues (and sometimes sixth formers as mentors) and wouldn’t be done by a supply teacher covering absence, as that isn’t what is covered under the agency contract. That’s why more should be done to ensure me and my colleagues are healthy enough to not need absences due to Covid.

I think we have established that your viewpoint is based on these ex teachers being additional help in the classroom or interventions, with the teacher already present. Which does make sense now.

However, what the OP is referring to (and I’d be interested to hear more from the OP @MsFannySqueers on their opinion too) was supposed to be supported by the now non existent national tutoring programme and is not what the Education Secretary is currently proposing.

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 16:57

Catch up is catch up on my syllabus/curriculum, whether or not it’s been due to Covid absences, other absences, student generally having difficulties and students not meeting their targets.

And you haven’t noticed an increase in the number of students who need this? Or the level of support they need? So your workload hasn’t changed at all?

noblegiraffe · 22/12/2021 17:11

Have you noticed it, pumper? What extra work are you doing to catch up your classes?

friedeggandsauce · 22/12/2021 17:14

Such a shame supply is no longer good money. I used to do supply after having my children and the schools paid me the comparable daily rate, it seems to all be through agencies now and they take a huge cut, I wouldn't do that any more, I'd earn more in a supermarket night shift

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 17:15

@noblegiraffe

Have you noticed it, pumper? What extra work are you doing to catch up your classes?
I have definitely noticed it, yes. I’ve had to drop the co-curricular stuff too - I’m in a fairly deprived school so we can’t rely on anything technology-based for catch up. I’ve also noticed a massive drop in homework (not that I’m a fan anyway) in that very few do it, or do it to a reasonable standard. And as I said upthread, the deskilling in things like handwriting, organisation, language, transitions, peer relations and so on.
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2021 17:16

So what are you doing about it?

Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 17:16

@noblegiraffe

Have you noticed it, pumper? What extra work are you doing to catch up your classes?
Just realised I didn’t answer your question properly - I’m not really doing anything to any great standard. I’ve always been available after school and I’m running various groups at lunchtimes but this is a problem too big for just me.
Pumperthepumper · 22/12/2021 17:17

@noblegiraffe

So what are you doing about it?
Cross post, see above.