Teachers!

[MsFannySqueers]

So retired/ex teachers are being asked to consider returning to the classroom because of possible staff shortages in the New Year. Is this something you would do?

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

How would bringing in retired teachers help with catching up on missed education?

It may stabilise the amount that the pupils are missing or have missed but in order to catch up the retired teachers would have to put in extra time.

The previous poster just wrote out a comprehensive argument for it. Why would they have to put in extra work?

I'd be happier with my retired colleague catching up my students than the person they've employed to do it. It's going to create me loads of extra work

Pumperthepumper

The previous poster wrote a possible (workable) solution that isn't the governments plan.
The plan (in case you missed it) is to put ex and retired teachers in front of entire classes, not to have them in front of small classes so that the pupils can catch up.

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

The previous poster wrote a possible (workable) solution that isn't the governments plan.
The plan (in case you missed it) is to put ex and retired teachers in front of entire classes, not to have them in front of small classes so that the pupils can catch up.

Just because you’re in charge of a whole class doesn’t mean you can’t do group work though? I don’t know much about the English system but working in groups isn’t unusual in Scotland.

Pumperthepumper

So would your pupils doing the catch up work also be expected to do the current work as well?

Even in this scenario the pupils that are behind are still behind.

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

So would your pupils doing the catch up work also be expected to do the current work as well?

Even in this scenario the pupils that are behind are still behind.

But they’re not as far behind as they would be. There will always be an attainment gap, this is a bridging measure.

Are you primary, pumper?

Just because you’re in charge of a whole class doesn’t mean you can’t do group work though? I don’t know much about the English system but working in groups isn’t unusual in Scotland.

Working in groups in my subject doesn’t work if I want any of them to be where I want academically but if you are Primary (I assuming that you are, apologies if not) then I can’t comment on the pedagogy of that.

Pumperthepumper

I agree that it stops them falling further behind, but it won't allow them to catch up.

That will always require extra time, teaching and effort from all involved.

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

I agree that it stops them falling further behind, but it won't allow them to catch up.

That will always require extra time, teaching and effort from all involved.

I don’t think anyone would deny that.

But I can’t see how it would hurt in relation to catching up on missed education.

And if the retired or ex teacher wasn’t very good or is now not very good? The elephant in the room really.

Besides, if the DforE hadn’t tendered to the lowest monetary offer of catch up tutoring to a Dutch firm that has not delivered, we may well have not been as quite in the mess we are in, in the first place.

@ChloeDecker

But I can’t see how it would hurt in relation to catching up on missed education.

And if the retired or ex teacher wasn’t very good or is now not very good? The elephant in the room really.

Besides, if the DforE hadn’t tendered to the lowest monetary offer of catch up tutoring to a Dutch firm that has not delivered, we may well have not been as quite in the mess we are in, in the first place.

What do you suggest instead?

Are you primary, pumper? Because your idea of supply teachers doing group work helping kids to catch up might make sense in primary when they are with the kids all day everyday for an extended period but really wouldn’t work with the ‘doss lesson’ model of cover at secondary.

@noblegiraffe

Are you primary, pumper? Because your idea of supply teachers doing group work helping kids to catch up might make sense in primary when they are with the kids all day everyday for an extended period but really wouldn’t work with the ‘doss lesson’ model of cover at secondary.

Secondary kids love supply teachers - means they don’t have to work!

(And that’s not a criticism of supply, just how they’re viewed by the pupils and to SLT they are just a body to stop kids killing each other).

What do you suggest instead?

I already suggested some things, based on my opinion and experience in Secondary, a few posts ago. Sorry if you missed it.

@ChloeDecker

What is the solution, do you think? To catching the children up, I mean.

In my opinion, the government doing more or at least doing something to keep the existing teachers actually in their classrooms. Both from dealing with health and safety properly, vaccinating us sooner and finally supporting teachers who stay in teaching, rather than keep throwing good money after bad on the ITT front.

I can only speak as a Secondary teacher in England, in a subject with very few specialists because we have the potential to earn way more with better working conditions outside of teaching and never having seen the same supply teacher twice (who can rarely teach the subject anyway) the DforE’s current focus is the wrong one for giving children what they need, in my subject.

This one? I thought this was more teacher-focused than child-focused. Do we just accept that those children will have huge gaps in their education and leave it there?

Do we just accept that those children will have huge gaps in their education and leave it there?
What gaps? Who decides that something is important? Because if my year 10 didn't read Holes in year 8, that actually doesn't matter one iota.

How is doing more to reduce teacher absence going to be worse academically for the pupils? This is where you have lost me actually. Especially as getting ex teachers back in schools is also teacher focused.
In England, the govt has just reduced the 10 day isolation period to 7, precisely for the reason to reduce absent NHS staff. Now, I am not suggesting this is the best decision but does show the govt can put in measures when they want to.

If the govt had/will put in:

1. A properly funded ‘catch up’ programme that actually got to the children who need it
2. Vaccinated staff earlier to reduce the situations where school staff suffered badly with Covid and were off long term or where not at their best when they returned
3. Invested in proper ventilation systems to reduce the risk of the virus spreading (and not waited until delivering just 8 CO2 monitors in the last week of term, in my school of 1800+ pupils and in my classroom of 33 computers, regularly goes up to 2000ppm with the windows open)
4. If they did not put in a pay freeze on existing teachers and properly funded teachers to stay and not quit
5. If they had rolled out the vaccination programme to 12-15 year olds earlier, rather than at the end of November (in my school)
6. If the govt actually paid what was needed to ensure all pupils and staff had the tech and Internet access that they need right from the word go
7. If the govt funded the additional services properly, such as CAMHS, Social Care and the police, then they could also have reduced the issue of pupils who haven’t returned to school yet and supported all mental health with measures such as paying for a full time, permanent professional counsellor in every school.

Then there would be less disruption in the first place, young people would be getting the education they deserve and ex/retired teachers could stay safely away from school buildings, hopefully putting less pressure on the NHS, should they get Covid badly.

How anyone could not think these are better measures is beyond me and shouldn’t be making excuses for the government or criticising teachers who are speaking out (and in my case, that has been emailing my MP consistently)

@MsFannySqueers

So retired/ex teachers are being asked to consider returning to the classroom because of possible staff shortages in the New Year. Is this something you would do?

Never in a month of Sundays. Not because I fear Covid though!

@ChloeDecker these are all things that need to happen anyway though. We’re talking about this immediate problem of filling in some missing education. How do we do it? Without asking some ex-teachers to come in?

@MrsHamlet

Do we just accept that those children will have huge gaps in their education and leave it there? What gaps? Who decides that something is important? Because if my year 10 didn't read Holes in year 8, that actually doesn't matter one iota.

And if he was already sitting at early level for reading? So is now a further year behind?

these are all things that need to happen anyway though. We’re talking about this immediate problem of filling in some missing education. How do we do it? Without asking some ex-teachers to come in?

Again, make sure their existing teachers are actually teaching in front of them.

How is this hard to follow, I don’t get it?

Teachers in Secondary have the knowledge of their pupils, the knowledge of what they have done/haven’t done, can do the lunchtime and after school boosters if they are there (supply/ex/retired teachers wouldn’t be doing this for example.)

Is it that you think? That these ex teachers will be additional members of staff in a classroom that can do interventions, like in Primary? Is that why you are saying what you are saying?

Because in Secondary, they would be the only person in the room, covering staff absence as we don’t tend to also have permanent TAs in Secondary (in fact, I have not had a TA in my classroom for many years) so there wouldn’t be an adult who knows the children/curriculum/syllabus etc. or possibilities for break away group work/interventions.

The DforE now need to do what they can to keep Secondary staff physically in the classroom. I cannot possibly comment on Primary (which again, although you haven’t said, your posts do seem to indicate you are Primary in Scotland)

@ChloeDecker

these are all things that need to happen anyway though. We’re talking about this immediate problem of filling in some missing education. How do we do it? Without asking some ex-teachers to come in?

Again, make sure their existing teachers are actually teaching in front of them.

How is this hard to follow, I don’t get it?

Teachers in Secondary have the knowledge of their pupils, the knowledge of what they have done/haven’t done, can do the lunchtime and after school boosters if they are there (supply/ex/retired teachers wouldn’t be doing this for example.)

Is it that you think? That these ex teachers will be additional members of staff in a classroom that can do interventions, like in Primary? Is that why you are saying what you are saying?

Because in Secondary, they would be the only person in the room, covering staff absence as we don’t tend to also have permanent TAs in Secondary (in fact, I have not had a TA in my classroom for many years) so there wouldn’t be an adult who knows the children/curriculum/syllabus etc. or possibilities for break away group work/interventions.

The DforE now need to do what they can to keep Secondary staff physically in the classroom. I cannot possibly comment on Primary (which again, although you haven’t said, your posts do seem to indicate you are Primary in Scotland)

Teachers who are already complaining of being overworked? Those teachers are going to do the lunchtime and after school boosters if they are there?

And if he was already sitting at early level for reading? So is now a further year behind?
Teaching reading as a skill is not something secondary teachers are trained for. We use learning support who are trained to do that.