The UK are not just southern England - in defence of Santa

[MajorCarolDanvers]

Week and week, day after day there is thread after thread complaining that we "Brits" don't all speak the same way and are falling prey to evil American influences.

Patiently, on each every thread, people from Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Northern England explain that we have different accents, dialects and cultural identities.

We are told we are lazy, coarse, uneducated and American.

So for all those who say Santa, Guising, Outwith, Mom, Mam, or drop your Ts or your 'ings' or roll your Rs and whatever else it is that JARS and GRATES on delicate southern ears I celebrate you.

YABU - learn to speak RP like a proper Brit
YANBU - there is more to UK than the south of England

Never seen these daily or even weekly posts you allude to

One of the lovely things about English is that there are many versions of it, both in the U.K. and all over the world. It changes and evolves.

Etymologically, though, Santa is an Americanism, one that has been here for a long time, but it is. It comes from the Dutch Sinter Klaas, which means St Nicholas, and was Americanised into Santa Claus in the 19th Century. Father Christmas predates Santa in English by a couple of hundred years.

I don’t care what anyone uses, I do love linguistics though.

@MajorCarolDanvers

Week and week, day after day there is thread after thread complaining that we "Brits" don't all speak the same way and are falling prey to evil American influences.

Patiently, on each every thread, people from Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Northern England explain that we have different accents, dialects and cultural identities.

We are told we are lazy, coarse, uneducated and American.

So for all those who say Santa, Guising, Outwith, Mom, Mam, or drop your Ts or your 'ings' or roll your Rs and whatever else it is that JARS and GRATES on delicate southern ears I celebrate you.

YABU - learn to speak RP like a proper Brit
YANBU - there is more to UK than the south of England

Oh and YANBU

@WeeHaggisFace

Never seen these daily or even weekly posts you allude to

I do! See also gotten, haitch and anything Halloween.

YANBU RP is just a regional accent from the South of England.

There are different accents (and even languages) in different regions of the UK, that does not remove the fact that there is growing Americanisation of the way English is spoken in the UK.

Dropping Ts (glottal stop) and ings is a South of England thing - South East where Estuary English is a common accent. Though I suspect the sort of people you’re talking about get sniffy about both the Estuary accent and the Cockney accent. I live in the SE and am not English and frankly I love all the accents of the U.K.

@Acrasia

One of the lovely things about English is that there are many versions of it, both in the U.K. and all over the world. It changes and evolves.

Etymologically, though, Santa is an Americanism, one that has been here for a long time, but it is. It comes from the Dutch Sinter Klaas, which means St Nicholas, and was Americanised into Santa Claus in the 19th Century. Father Christmas predates Santa in English by a couple of hundred years.

I don’t care what anyone uses, I do love linguistics though.

In parts of ENGLAND - you are quite correct

In other parts of the UK it does not we take our Santa or Santy origins directly from SinterKlass

I’m a midlander; my personal bugbear is when people accuse us of adopting Americanisms when we use the word ‘mom’.

I have said YABU purely because Santa is an Americanism rather than a regional variation. I love to hear different accents but wish we could keep the Americanisms out of our language.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

YANBU RP is just a regional accent from the South of England.

RP is not a regional accent, Southerners, or even those from the South East do not speak RP. RP would perhaps best be regarded as a cultural or class based accent than regional.

We are told we are (...) American.

I'm from Northern England. Why is someone saying I'm American?

I know, so boring, I say Santa, of course, I'm from south Dublin. I lived in to uk but was never going to say faaaathuh christmas, or for that matter, "santee" 😂

We all say it how we say it. Shocker.

I do get a bit 😐🧐 at that assumption that the south of england way is the correct way, but, I suppose, let them have it, it matters so little. 🍷🌲

We should have all gotten used to this though. I see the insistence that that Santa is American is popping up on this thread. It seems outwith the understanding of some that other parts of the UK have their own cultural heritage.

Santa Claus actually makes more sense as the legend is based on St Nicholas.

Looking down on regional variations is just snobbery.

In parts of ENGLAND - you are quite correct

In other parts of the UK it does not we take our Santa or Santy origins directly from SinterKlass

The origins of the name Santa do come from SinterKlass though, either via America, or from the Dutch.

@DismantledKing

I’m a midlander; my personal bugbear is when people accuse us of adopting Americanisms when we use the word ‘mom’.

Oh yes.

"oh, I think Op might be American, she said" Mom"! " said with inaginery head tilt that I'm either foreign or stupid

I taught my toddler Santa as it was easier for her to say than Father Christmas.

Whilst there are many dialects within the UK, you can't deny the adoption of many Americanisms (which is a dialect in itself), mostly having come from TV and film.

RP is more than an accent, it's standard English, but that doesn't make other dialects 'wrong'.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Santa Claus actually makes more sense as the legend is based on St Nicholas.

Looking down on regional variations is just snobbery.

The legend is not just from St Nicholas, the character of Father Christmas was originally separate and the merger happened around the 19th century. Other elements, the trees and reindeer, winter feasting etc. combine multiple elements going back to pre-Christian paganism.

The snobbery is based on the belief that the way things are said/pronounced in the south of England is automatically the correct way, but the south of England is also a region, also susceptible to regional mistakes, bad pronunciation. Eg "lore and ordah" for law and order.

YANBU OP. Where I’m from (in north west) everyone says pants instead of trousers, live in south west now and whenever I say pants people accuse me of using americanisms (or assume in talking about underwear )

RP is only standard English as defined by some. I am English and I find RP objectionable.

I still spell licence with a c though (for the noun).

@Cam2020

I taught my toddler Santa as it was easier for her to say than Father Christmas.

Whilst there are many dialects within the UK, you can't deny the adoption of many Americanisms (which is a dialect in itself), mostly having come from TV and film.

RP is more than an accent, it's standard English, but that doesn't make other dialects 'wrong'.

Its been Santa and Santy in other parts of the UK since before the advent of TV and Film.

@MajorCarolDanvers

We should have all gotten used to this though. I see the insistence that that Santa is American is popping up on this thread. It seems outwith the understanding of some that other parts of the UK have their own cultural heritage.

Loving the use of gotten and outwith on this 😁