To post this for road users unaware of upcoming highway code changes

[FluffyBooBoo]

That's loads of info available online, but the AA have done a study that shows that two thirds of people are unaware of the charges.

Photo attached with basic info.

@purplesequins

they did a reconstruction, and even with the six mirrors (including one to view the front of the vehicle), because of her height and where she stood, she couldn't be seen by the driver.

frankly, if the driver can't see pedestrians and cyclists properly due to vehicle design the driver should not drive it.

Well that's fine if you don't want any food or fuel delivered. Let us know when you have the patent for those xray specs and crystal ball combined.

And I accepted that. But you are not more entitled to be on the road than anyone else.

To be fair, I was during lockdown. I was allowed to drive to work when the police were stopping people and asking where they were going etc.

Must the thread be taken over by the ageist and misogynistic 'Karen' slur?

Yeah - Karen as an insult is deeply unsavoury

Wow! Who said Karen? I missed that. A misogynist, racist, ageist slur used by people who don't have any other argument.

I don't think it's any worse than talking about 'gammons' tbh, which I've seen used a lot on here. In fact gammon is worse because it's an insult based on skin colour. I daresay it's those who the cap fits who tend to get the most offended!

Did anyone on this thread say gammon? I deplore it but did anyone say it?

Tractorsandheadphones - I disagree, the onus is on larger vehicles to give smaller vehicles a wide berth, there should be no such thing as blind spots. 'Vision zero' is an international campaign/policy started in Sweden to eventually end all road deaths. Its not acceptable that there are vehicles on the road with blind spots, it's not acceptable that so many road layouts favour motor vehicles at the expense of pedestrians, for example.

Personally I think there should be properly segregated cycle lanes in inner cities purely to minimise the risk of these accidents happening.

Yet whenever there is some investment in half-decent infrastructure, you get people moaning that money is being spent on cyclists. Can't win.

I'm not daft enough to go up the inside of a lorry. Many trailers have stickers on the back warning of the blind spot. That said, if there is a minority of drivers who do try to overtake in dangerous places, they need dealing with. That said, I generally have no issue with HGV or bus drivers. Trust me, I don't like having a diesel engine growling along behind me so I do my best to find an opportunity to lose it. Formalising the advice for cyclists to take the middle of the lane should help reduce the opportunities for dangerous overtakes.

@Fomofo

Tractorsandheadphones - I disagree, the onus is on larger vehicles to give smaller vehicles a wide berth, there should be no such thing as blind spots. 'Vision zero' is an international campaign/policy started in Sweden to eventually end all road deaths. Its not acceptable that there are vehicles on the road with blind spots, it's not acceptable that so many road layouts favour motor vehicles at the expense of pedestrians, for example.

you say so much better what I was trying to say. thank you.

a vehicle that has blind spots, particularly at cyclist and pedestrian height is not fit for purpose and should not be on the road.

@Fomofo

Tractorsandheadphones - I disagree, the onus is on larger vehicles to give smaller vehicles a wide berth, there should be no such thing as blind spots. 'Vision zero' is an international campaign/policy started in Sweden to eventually end all road deaths. Its not acceptable that there are vehicles on the road with blind spots, it's not acceptable that so many road layouts favour motor vehicles at the expense of pedestrians, for example.

I have seen initiates like the DVS which aims to reduce blind spots - but is it possible for them to be fully eliminated? Link would be great

Vision Zéro while a catchy name doesn’t say anything specifically about blind posts the Swedish implementation was about speed limits

visionzeronetwork.org/about/what-is-vision-zero/

medium.com/vision-zero-cities-journal/a-case-for-direct-vision-5bc2e11d0369

a vehicle that has blind spots, particularly at cyclist and pedestrian height is not fit for purpose and should not be on the road.
As I said, once you have that patent for X ray specs, let us know.
Until that point, and assuming we all want food etc delivered, isn't some realism about how things actually are not how you'd like them to be a better plan?
I don't know if you drive a car, but most cars have blind spots too where a child or animal cannot be seen from the driver's seat - should they also all be immobilised until your specs are ready?
Also just because someone CAN be seen doesn't mean they will.
An HGV can, and in most cases will, give a pedestrian or cyclist a "wide berth" but only if the driver knows they are there. In that case in Newport, the woman walked up in front of the lorry while he was stationary and placed herself precisely where she couldn't be seen. Of course she didn't do it on purpose, but she effectively sneaked up on the driver - he had no reason to imagine there would be anyone there and he couldn't see her. My takeaway form that is - we need to educate people more about the hazards, not "stop all road traffic immediately".
Vison zero is a great initiative but it can't happen overnight, so in the meantime doesn't it make sense to try to make pedestrians and cyclists more aware of the risks?

At some point in the not too far distant future it should be possible to have all round sensors/cameras, with the intelligence to work out if an object is a lamppost or a person. I would hope self driving vehicles already have something of the sort. Until then - all cyclists and most (not all) pedestrians do have the capacity of all round vehicle detection. So of course they should (and mostly do) pay attention and not place themselves in danger. I don't believe that pedestrians are going to start hurling themselves in droves in front of oncoming cars expecting them to brake sharply, any more than they typically do on zebra crossings.

I saw a great one on Twitter yesterday which made me realise that people are not only mad in the UK.

In Germany a guy took photos of cars that were parked on the cycle lane forcing his 9 year old son into the road. The authorities refused to do anything, and fined him, under data protection laws, for taking photos. And they said that even if parking on cycle ways was illegal, the boy could get past on his bike, so what was the problem...

I used to cycle to work daily in London for years. I saw so many other cyclists undertaking a lorry or bus with no cycle lane. Every day I would see at least one. Often edging down the side of a bendy bus with a hand on the side of the bus to steady them because the space was so narrow

I have seen that plenty of times in London too. I think that the new Highway Code should have specifically outlawed undertaking (sorry, "lawful filtering"). It is really dangerous and you cannot reasonably expect a driver to be looking at both wing mirrors at once.

and that is if the driver can even see a bike in their wing mirror

@Fomofo it still talks about minimising rather than completely eliminating blind spots. It’s also not mentioned how many angle of view a driver can take into consideration at one go?

If there was a sensor system that could flash if someone was there for example it would make sense

@TractorAndHeadphones you can never eliminate risk but since I passed my test as a teenager in 1982 there have been breathtaking improvements to road safety achieved through technology and social attitudes.

I don't understand the concept that we can't do more in any endeavour. We can never do everything but we can always do more if we want to. That's not a pipe dream. We've all seen it happen.

[quote TractorAndHeadphones]**@Fomofo* it still talks about minimising* rather than completely eliminating blind spots. It’s also not mentioned how many angle of view a driver can take into consideration at one go?

If there was a sensor system that could flash if someone was there for example it would make sense[/quote]
I do also have a sensor on my near side telling me if there is something there, so they are on some vehicles.

[quote limitedperiodonly]@TractorAndHeadphones you can never eliminate risk but since I passed my test as a teenager in 1982 there have been breathtaking improvements to road safety achieved through technology and social attitudes.

I don't understand the concept that we can't do more in any endeavour. We can never do everything but we can always do more if we want to. That's not a pipe dream. We've all seen it happen.[/quote]
Yes of course we can - but that's very different to people saying 'Dangerous trucks should be taken off the road now, at this very moment'.
There are already standards in place and gaining traction as I have posted, so nobody is ignoring the need for road safety improvements. least of all academic institutions such as Loughborough University who have dedicated considerable time to studying it.

What I find ironic is people vilifying big vehicles, not realising that unless they live off-grid (and even then people buy supplies from town!) every single thing they touch has been supplied by trucks. It's fair enough to state that since the technology exists all of these vehicles must be converted to more safety features etc by X date but to say 'ban all vehicles unless there are 100% no blind spots!' (you have said yourself we can't 100% eliminate risk) is very simplistic.