Gifting non-vegan art to a vegan friend

[forinborin]

A ridiculous first world problem of today.

And the problem is that I commissioned a painting for one of my old dear friends as a Christmas present and just realised now that the artist uses quite a lot of animal-derived products in their work (ox gall as a primer, sable/squirrel brushes, things like that). Realised after watching some video tutorials of the said artist.

The friend is long-term vegetarian, turned vegan around a year ago. Quite strict about it (not in a proselytising way, but all close people know).

Would it be ethically ok to still give it to her? Or would it be below the "tolerance" level? Or do I ask her first if she is ok with it (it was intended as a surprise, so this will ruin it in a sense)? I feel so stupid now for not checking, but it is not something that occurred to me at all.

[headspin10]

So interesting! I've been vegan years and to be honest, my advice would be give it as planned and don't say anything , that would take the joy out of it - probably- but it wouldn't occur to me to think of those things as the recipient . I mean animal brushes, maybe, but I'm assuming they weren't bought specifically for this painting. I think what's done is done and you've done a kind thing.

[HandScreen]

I'd just give it and pretend you didn't know if she finds out later.

[forinborin]

@LetterBug

How much did you spend? That would be the deciding factor for me

Around £70 for the sketch and another £20 for framing. It is not in the UK though, so not comparable to the UK prices.

[BlackCatz]

@Beautiful3

I would gift it and say nothing about it.

Same here.

[Trivium4all]

It's an interesting question, how any individual weighs a deeply held philosophical belief versus obligations perceived towards loved ones, or indeed towards guests and hosts (often a sacred relationship in many cultures). Personally, I cannot imagine holding a taboo (such as veganism) so strongly, as to willingly offend someone who was wishing to give me a personalised gift. For me, the closest equivalent would be e.g. horse meat (which is accepted as normal in many cultures, but personally repugnant to me). If I were offered in good faith a meal containing horse meat, which I recognised was intended in a spirit of offering me something particularly nice, I would accept it graciously in the spirit in which it was offered (at this point, it would be too late for the horse in question, anyway). If I really feared there might be a chance of repetition, I would bring it up after some time had passed, as a thing that I would prefer to be avoided in the future. There is grace in receiving, as well as in giving. Honour the honest giver: there is nothing to be gained in refusing the gift. The ox is dead either way, not to put too fine a point on it.

[LibrariesGiveUsPower]

I’m not a vegan but I stopped using any animal products in my art years ago, there are plenty of alternatives.

I wouldn’t mention it to her.

[DifferentHair]

@MorningStarling

'She's not going to eat it so I think it's fine to give it to her. I am not a vegan and would have zero problem with being given a piece of art that had no animal-based products in it - I wouldn't even think about it to be honest.'

This is the funniest thing I've read on Mumsnet in a really long time. Thank you!

[limitedperiodonly]

What was I thinking @forinborin? Go for it. Don't tell her unless it's made from a dead shark or wafer thin ham. She'd probably love it then.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

Trivium4all

But if you already eat meat, horse meat isn’t that different, so to me it’s nothing like OPs scenario. If OPs friend already had art that contained other animal products then your comparison would make sense. OP doesn’t say she does, so it’s completely different. Also, in your scenario, you would mention it at some point so as not to eat horse meat again, only as a one off. OPs friend would have to look at the art every day potentially, this could be very unpleasant for her, like you eating horse meat again and again. OPs friend may be fine with it, I wouldn’t be, along with many others on his thread.

[DinosaurDuvet]

It would never have crossed my mind that a painting wouldn’t be vegan! Give it to her, say nothing

[Queeen]

You sound lovely, generous and kind. Thank you for being considerate.

I've been vegan for 22 years, and I'd not accept this gift. I'd appreciate your efforts, love and care though.

[timeforanewlife]

I have a vegan friend and I search long hours to ensure that the gift is vegan. However, with art it is very difficult. Is there a way she wouldn't check? I definitely wouldn't think about animal products in art.

[Alsonification]

Don’t know if it has been suggested already but could you take a photo of the painting and have it printed onto canvas? And you could explain the situation to her while still giving her the painting without the animal products in her home.

[forinborin]

@Alsonification

Don’t know if it has been suggested already but could you take a photo of the painting and have it printed onto canvas? And you could explain the situation to her while still giving her the painting without the animal products in her home.

Yes, this is my Plan B. It's a shame it probably won't look as nice when printed - it is one of those watercolour sketches that intentionally look "unfinished", with one focal object being done in fine detail but the rest in large transparent washes and there's plenty of white paper left too with some "dry" brush edges - if this explanation makes sense at all!

I was also thinking about maybe ordering a repeat from the artist but without animal products. It obviously will take some time though, and I am a bit concerned about looking stupid

This thread was fantastically helpful, by the way.

[Alsonification]

Its a very thoughtful gift & im sure your friend will be thrilled either way.
For what it’s worth, it wouldn’t even occur to me to check a painting is vegan friendly.

[Trivium4all]

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Trivium4all

But if you already eat meat, horse meat isn’t that different, so to me it’s nothing like OPs scenario. If OPs friend already had art that contained other animal products then your comparison would make sense. OP doesn’t say she does, so it’s completely different. Also, in your scenario, you would mention it at some point so as not to eat horse meat again, only as a one off. OPs friend would have to look at the art every day potentially, this could be very unpleasant for her, like you eating horse meat again and again. OPs friend may be fine with it, I wouldn’t be, along with many others on his thread.

I was using it as an example of a thing personally repugnant to me, so the fact that to you it would not be that different since it's still meat, is irrelevant to my argument, really. However, your point about the picture still being there (unlike the meat, which is gone) seems fair to me (perhaps a better comparator would be if someone gifted me a live tarantula!). So OPs friend could also do what many recipients do with unwanted gifts: accept it, and then shove it in the back of a cuboard somewhere...(although this could be a problem if OP is visiting a lot!) I think in this case, the proposed solution of talking to the friend, explaining the situation, and asking seems fairest. It's not a foregone conclusion the vegan friend won't want it; after all, there have been several vegans on this thread that said they wouldn't mind. I don't think I would simply not mention it: I'd feel guilty for knowingly deceiving my friend.

[Trivium4all]

Ah, and "looking at the picture more than once" would not be like "eating horse meat more than once", because in the case of the picture, there is not a new ox getting killed each time you look at it. So it looks like in general, my comparison was problematic, but others could be found (the slightly facetious tarantula, perhaps).

[MerryMarigold]

@FlipFlops4Me

As a vegan the ox-gall would be the deal-breaker for me. It's unfortunate but you are very kind in considering your friend's principles this way. If she is given a chance to think about it she might find that done's done and can't be undone, if you see what I mean.

I search (sometimes for a long time) to find vegan versions of things I want and if a vegan version can't be found then my attitude is that I'd rather do without. I think I'd have to say the same about the ox-gall.

I think the point is searching for yourself. However, if a friend had done something very thoughtful for you and not realised the issue, I actually think it's a bit rude. It's not going to make any difference to any animal now it's already been bought and paid for. It's one of those situations where you need to put principles aside as there are more important things going on here. Life is not so black and white.

[HangingOutWithTheSandman]

It's one of those situations where you need to put principles aside as there are more important things going on here.

No, vegans don’t need to put their principles aside so they can accept a gift. 🙄

OP sounds lovely and thankfully will not be expecting her friend to do this. I would expect the friend to be equally as polite and also grateful that her friend had done something really nice even if it turns out she can’t accept it.

[Potpourri23]

How likely is it that she'll go and look up how the art was made?

Honestly I wouldn't say anything, because if you do, she may feel obliged to say "oh, in that case thanks but I can't accept this gift" when actually she'd love to keep it. If you feign ignorance, even if she does discover that animal products were used, it leaves her the space to save face if her love for the art overrides her concern for how it was made.

[limitedperiodonly]

How likely is it that she'll go and look up how the art was made?

Highly likely, I'd say. Vegetarians, vegans, religious people, people with severe allergies, people with political objections to certain things make it a point to read labels and ask questions because people like you @Potpourri23 and so many others on this thread think they're making a fuss over nothing and would probably like it really.

How hard is that to understand?

[housemaus]

I think it's very thoughtful of you to have considered it, OP!

It wouldn't have even occured to me to think how art I was giving as a gift was made (although I'm veggie, not vegan) - if it wasn't food or drink or made of leather, it would probably not cross my mind.

And without asking them directly, I'm fairly sure those I know who are vegan would take the view that it had already been painted for them (so refusing it wouldn't stop the use of animal products, and would therefore be a waste). Not that this is the only approach, of course.

If nothing else, I hope she appreciates the thoughtfulness of the gift as a whole, and you as a friend for thinking about its creation (albeit afterward - but I genuinely don't think this would occur to lots of people, including many vegans!).

[HyggeTygge]

THREAD IS FROM A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO

@forinborin OP another thread has made me think of this one - how did it turn out in the end?

[Potpourri23]

@limitedperiodonly

How likely is it that she'll go and look up how the art was made?

Highly likely, I'd say. Vegetarians, vegans, religious people, people with severe allergies, people with political objections to certain things make it a point to read labels and ask questions because people like you *@Potpourri23* and so many others on this thread think they're making a fuss over nothing and would probably like it really.

How hard is that to understand?

I'm an ex vegan, current vegetarian and I have many friends I cook for with various dietary requirements so yes I'm very aware of checking labels.

Not sure many people regularly check what kind of paintbrushes were used to create the art on their walls, but I'll take your word for it.

[BrutusMcDogface]

I’ve just read all of the op’s posts and would also really love to know how this turned out! It sounds like an exquisitely thoughtful gift from an equally thoughtful friend.